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Fitna (a short movie about Islam in Europe)
(57 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
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50.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 10:03 am

I think Handsom The Hairy said everything about your points referring to 301 and Pamuk. I find nothing else to add as he's right.

And Islam...Canli says there's one Islam, only one possible way of interpretation that is right and it needs no reform, which you agree with. What would you call the countries that punish men and women for having a coffee together or those where men are free to sexually assault a woman if she is without male company or those where converting is considered a crime? Aren't they officially Muslim? Aren't they justifying their actions with Quran verses? To me they act differently than most of the Muslims I know. Now, if we call them radical, it means that they are closest to the right interpreting of Quran, doesn't it? (Webster's definition of radical is: "Of or pertaining to the root; proceeding directly from the root")

So, either there's more than one Islam (in the sense of school and/or interpretation) or those radicals are right and all the rest lives by liberal rules and, in effect, don't follow the word of God the way he'd like that.

Now, tell me, who is right - radicals or the other group. And is there a body that decides about it?

51.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 03:21 pm

Quoting CANLI:


Anyway,thx for comparing me by the guys in Afghanistan!
Nice touch thank you !


Come on Canli..
You very well know that i was not trying to belittle you or anything with above..
All I was trying to say that you are reading kuran and interpreting something.
and the people in afghanistan are reading the same thing and interpreting something else..

52.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 10:48 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

I think Handsom The Hairy said everything about your points referring to 301 and Pamuk. I find nothing else to add as he's right.

And Islam...Canli says there's one Islam, only one possible way of interpretation that is right and it needs no reform, which you agree with. What would you call the countries that punish men and women for having a coffee together or those where men are free to sexually assault a woman if she is without male company or those where converting is considered a crime? Aren't they officially Muslim? Aren't they justifying their actions with Quran verses? To me they act differently than most of the Muslims I know. Now, if we call them radical, it means that they are closest to the right interpreting of Quran, doesn't it? (Webster's definition of radical is: "Of or pertaining to the root; proceeding directly from the root")

So, either there's more than one Islam (in the sense of school and/or interpretation) or those radicals are right and all the rest lives by liberal rules and, in effect, don't follow the word of God the way he'd like that.

Now, tell me, who is right - radicals or the other group. And is there a body that decides about it?


Daydreamer,actually i dont know how else would i make it simple !
We really lead very simple life than you may think

Ok let me try...
İn İslam,Christianity... Lying is a sin...yes ?!
That is the rule,it is clear,you read it and understand it,i read it and understand it ...yes ?!
Ok now there are group of people who know this,and they afraid if they make that sin while they are talking,so,when ever they say anything,they get proves for it,or eye witness ,or anyone else to say what they said is right...
İs this what İslam said or Christianity said ?
Or they just said Lying is a Sin ?!
Another group,they dont lie but they hide what they know,or manipulate by words so they dont say the truth at the end
İs it also what İslam and Christianity said ?!

Lying is a sin,that is the rule,that is fixed,no change
What people doing above,is how they apply this rule

So you actually cant say oooohhh İslam or Christianity is very hard and restricted religion when you judge first group
And also you shouldnt say İslam and Christianity are manipulative when judging the second group

So you got what i mean ?
Rules are fixed,and clear also

İn İslam,man and woman shouldnt be alone together in a closed place
They should be punished only,and ONLY when there are 4 eye witness for their sin,that is the rule

So having coffee together in open place is not a case of this rule,or any other rule in Quran
İ dont know which country punish them,but who do it,its coming from their system,their traditions,but not from Qur'an
İt is here same as i have mentioned in my above example

Of course they are Muslims,and also they have the right to live their life the way they want 'to be extreme or other wise'
But when they rule,they should and MUST rule according to the written rule in Quran
İf ALLAH wanted the extreme to be the rule HE could simply do this
They cant apply their personal choice in religion on everyone .

So actually the choices you are making between both are not right
''So, either there's more than one Islam (in the sense of school and/or interpretation) or those radicals are right and all the rest lives by liberal rules and, in effect, don't follow the word of God the way he'd like that.''

There is ONE İslam of course,but there are 3 ways of applying the same rule in anything not only in religion, extreme,middle,less
And our prophet SAV said better ways are the middle ways

Our judge in the end between all is Quran

Take İran for example,they say they are İslamic country,ok agree,Muslims have 1 book and that is Quran ,so take the book give me my rights and hold me to my duties not more nor less
Other than that,its my personal choice
Understand what i mean ?!




53.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 17 May 2008 Sat 10:55 am

Quoting CANLI:



So actually the choices you are making between both are not right

Quoting Daydreamer:

So, either there's more than one Islam (in the sense of school and/or interpretation) or those radicals are right and all the rest lives by liberal rules and, in effect, don't follow the word of God the way he'd like that.



There is ONE İslam of course,but there are 3 ways of applying the same rule in anything not only in religion, extreme,middle,less
And our prophet SAV said better ways are the middle ways



But, Canli, that's exactly what I said, just, instead of using the term "apply rules" I used "interpret rules."
But I meant exactly the same thing

54.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 17 May 2008 Sat 02:40 pm

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55.       CANLI
5084 posts
 17 May 2008 Sat 03:58 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

I meant exactly the same thing


Then we agree i guess

zhang ziyi,
You have very strange picking of the links you provide,i couldnt figure their aim till now actually
Are you one of the % 77 or % 23 in that survey ?!
Accordingly,i guess i wont be able to reply till i do!

56.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 17 May 2008 Sat 07:02 pm

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57.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 20 May 2008 Tue 12:05 am

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