Prefect timing from Russia

Russian tanks have entered Georgia´s breakaway region of South Ossetia, says Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

Georgia has been fighting separatists with ties to Russia in order to regain control of the province, which has had de facto independence since the 1990s.

Russian troops in the South Ossetian capital said their artillery had begun firing at Georgian forces, Russian news agencies reported.

Russia´s president earlier promised to defend his citizens in South Ossetia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7548715.stm

Like with every conflict it´s hard to decide who is to be reprehensible. It is a fact that Georgians started ethnical cleansing in Ossetia, which is about 90% Russian ethnically. Russian forces claim to be defending their fellow-countrymen.

It is pathetic to see how world´s opinions differ in similar cases, depending on the sides of conflict. Kosovo´s independence from Serbia was accepted worldwide without bigger problems. It is no surprise that other areas of similar status would soon follow. When Ossetia decided to leave Georgia they started regular combat not wanting to allow it. Then Russia decided to help Ossetia. Now Baltic countries - the same that accepted Kosovo´s independence - view Georgia as victim and Russia as aggressors. Only Germany condemned Georgia. Where´s logic in that? Why is it ok for Serbia to lose Kosovo but it´s not ok for Georgia to lose Ossetia? Because in the former case it´s Albania´s benefit and in the latter Russia´s. And Russian´s are the bad guys.

I wonder how many countries would support independent Kurdistanin Turkey. I´m sure Pland would be one - heer´s a photo I took two years ago in Cracow, Poland

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/3/8/9/f_S5000097m_d06d885.jpg

(In Polish it says Regional Government of Kurdistan, Representative in Poland)

why didn`t you give the same reaction when the Russians and Armenians genocided the Azeris or when the greeks killed hundreds of Turkish Cypriots? Why don`t you recognize the TRNC even though it`s perhaps the best functioning country that is unrecognized? You`re complaining about hypocrisy but you`re not any different either.

 Very true

I am not sure it is a true statement entirely

revenues: Greek Cypriot area—$2.9 billion Turkish Cypriot area—$171 million

Unemployment rate: Greek Cypriot area: 3.3% (1997 est.); Turkish Cypriot area: 6.4% (1996)

GDP—per capita: purchasing power parity—$13 500 (Greek Cypriot area: purchasing power parity—$15 000; Turkish Cypriot area: purchasing power parity—$8 00 (1997 est.)

more here

http://www.world66.com/asia/middleeast/cyprus/economy

Reasonable and true.

well, if you read my post more carefully, you will see that I said "the best functioning country that is UNRECOGNIZED". The Greek Cypriot administration is recognized as the whole Cyprus by the world and illegaly accepted into the EU, so comparing the Greek Cypriot area to the TRNC is meaningless, but when you compare it to any other unrecognized country, you will have to admit that what I said is very true.

I will be quite happy to know other UNRECOGNIZED countries.....

 Somaliland, Abkhazia, Karabakh,South Ossetia(where the war is right now) ,Transnistria ??

right, you already gave the answer.

You mean ´you´ as personally me or ´you´ as Poland? If you mean general world´s hypoctisy then that´s exactly what I tried to draw people´s attention to in my post - including my own country´s hypocrisy.

If you asked me why I didn´t complain about Cyprus, Azeris etc....where was I supposed to do that? It is a thread about OSSETIA so I commented ON THE TOPIC drawing parallel to Kosovo, which I believe gave rise to Ossetian independence movement. I´m grateful you consider me such an important part of foreign politics but I don´t recall any debates where I´d say give my opinion about these countries you mentioned. Also, unlike you, I prefer sticking to the topic discussed instead of just biting around pointlessly. Start a topic about other countries and members will be glad to give their opinions about them. That is if anybody still considers you a serious debate partner

that you means your fellow countrymen in general. Don`t you consider your country`s incentive to recognize "kurdistan" hypocrisy while it doesn`t recognize TRNC?

btw, it was you who brought up "kurdistan" instead of "sticking to the topic discussed", not me.

So if you meant my fellow-countrymen then I´ve already explained that their hypocrisy was exactly the point of my post. As you said in a different thread, first read then attack To show the hypocrisy of my country I gave example of Kurdistan, so it was justified actually I´m getting lost - are you snapping at me because you agree about Poland´s hypocrisy or because you don´t?

I read your post again, and I`m still unable to tell if you were pointing out the hypocrisy of Poland or your support for the recognition of "kurdistan". If you think I got you wrong, that`s perhaps because you didn`t make your point straight and clear.

I apologise for being so unclear, however, I thought that words like "pathetic" "differ" and the comment on "where logic is" as far as the issue of independence is concerned were pretty clear. I am sorry if you missed all those hints I had found pretty straightforward. Next time I´ll do my best to be simple enough for you to understand me. Or at least I´ll try I don´t know what is the level of your ability to understand, judging by what you didn´t understand I might have problems getting that simple...

let me know if I`m supposed to laugh now. the level of my ability to understand things is as low as your jokes.

 Wanting to get ´even´? How childish.

the gang is assembling! where is catwoman and the others?

You seem to be obsessed with ´vinager´ Trudy..

 Only for those who deserve it.

Is the old U.S.S.R. returning? Is this resurgence of military power a sign?  What are your thoughts?

I wonder if Turkey would intervene and help the Georgians, however I doubt it since they are not a sufficient interest to them.. ):

Actually the argument Russia´s using is just like the one US used to justify their presence in Iraq. They call themselves peace-warrants in that region. Of course that´s not really why they´re there. It´s all about power. Oil lines from the East go either through Georgia or Russia. Georgia gave Russia a reason to interfere - massacres of Russian citizens in Ossetia. Now Russians say they won´t back down until peace is restored in Georia.

It´s not comeback of USSR but it is demonstration of Russia´s power. Also, like I said before, it shows world opinion´s hypocrisy - yesterday I saw an interview with Putin who said that the world didn´t oppose US invasion in Iraq, the reason being doing away with the riegime guilty of a number of deaths. And the same world condemns Russia for entering Georgia that has been burning down whole villages killing its inhabitants. He said the world´d done nothing about the situation in Ossetia and somebody had to protect Russian citizens living there.

I am not fond of one country´s intervention in another and I see no high moral ground there but there is some truth to what he said - you can´t support US invasion in Iraq and condemn the Russian one in Georgia, you can´t vote in favour of Kosovo´s independence and claim that Ossetia is an integral part of Georgia´s territory.

Is it okay to murder indiscriminately because of what the USA and the UK have done in the past and the present. Does it make it ok?  I´ve seen videos of AlQuada using that same logic when it comes to what the UK did under Queen Victoria. I don´t believe in wholesale murder because people don´t like what happened in the past/present and who our allies are.

The moral equivalency comparison has gotten so old it’s lost its usefulness and perpetuates problems, including the position of whose lives has more value than another.

Of course it´s not ok to murder. But Georgia gave Russia reason to intervene by slaughtering Russian citizens living in Ossetia. Let´s hope the conflict (war?) over thre will come to an end quickly and no more civilians will get killed or hurt

I think DD is absolutley right.

USA and the UK are at the top of the list when it comes to going to the war  and killing  innocent  people. 

I found it quite  ironic and laugable really when  USA administration says:

"I said this violence is unacceptable" ,  "unacceptable in the 21st Century" " Moscow is guilty of a dramatic and brutal escalation".

 "must not go unanswered" Chaney..

Do they really  think people forgot Iraq and Afghanistan and want people to believe them ?

They are ludicrously funny..

I congratulate you on your reply that is right on the topic! This is a response of a desparate losing person who has no reasonable replies left.

But you didn´t find it laughable when Turkey insisted we help them in Northern Iraq with the PKK.  Again, this is the same logic that terrorists use.

Didn´t handsom disagree with bombing Northern Iraq? And of course it is very laughable and utter hipocricy when US and UK preach about what is acceptable. The whole world protested against their actions and they didn´t change anything. It´s pathetic.

 But do you think is it the same with the current issue?

And Saarkasvili is very guilty at this step!! He was having bad times at Georgia and he wanted to gurantee next elections with such a stupid move!!!

Russia was very jealous of the pipe line Baku-Tibilisi-Ceyhan and now they have chance to hit it wrongly

I don´t recall whether handsom agreed or not.  But we were pressured from Turkey´s goverment to help and we did.  Whether you think it´s hiprocricy or not, it doesn´t diminish what is going on in Georgia.  We could sit here all day and discuss the U.S. did this and the Ottoman Empire did that. Right now we still have countries who look to us to help resolve problems and issues, whether you like or not, it´s reality. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_equivalency

As catwoman said, I never supported Turkey´s incursion into Northern Iraq. But it is not the issue here.

Your administrations, your country committed the biggest terrorist activities in the world.

You have committed the biggest war crimes since the end of the second world war.

USA´s actions caused millions of people dead in all over the world.

Your country is still occupying 2 foreign countries, which are, god knows how many miles from your own soil.

And now, your president says "unacceptable in the 21st Century".

Dont you see that he is funnier than late iraqi information minister?

Well yes... Ottoman Empire was invading other countries for their resources, US invaded Iraq for their resources, Russia is invading and I am sure that when China grows stronger, it will invade Taiwan and who knows what else. That is how it is. Only now, Turkey is pointing out injustices, when they are on the receiving end, same with everybody else.

We were simply saying that for Bush to tell Russia that what they do is wrong is as if Saudi Arabia was preaching on human rights violations in the UK (which they did).

I guess it was a little different, Turkish Army Forces was doing an operation in Northern Iraq and after the cries Iraqi governers you decided to have a move... and then after meetings you wanted to share your informations where to bomb when etc... 

 so if i use a drug, i cant say using drugs is harmful? you mean this?

It is not the same!!! If you used drugs, you are only harming yourself, not other people.

This is more like "imagine the pope ordering mass murders somewhere and then telling muslims that murdering people is unacceptable". Yes, it makes a difference that a world leader says it, not an average joe.

First of all, you harm all the people around you with using drug not only yourselves!

secondly,  you cant say that Bush´s saying is wrong! It sounds so tragic and funny but he says right!

What is done in Georgia or Osetia is not right... it sounds like a bit playing with words.

Yeah wish there was no war but the weapon industry is a very very big economical source for the country you live on now... and some other countries... as long as you continue producing weapons there will be wars...

Of course what he said was right..

But it is a situation like Hitler talking about ´genocide, crime against humanity´ really.

Can you imagine Hitler was lecturing the world about genocide and racism?

(Or osama binladin is lecturing the world about terrorism)

Would you not laugh at the irony? (I would)

 For osama bin laden and terror

i will give this link and strongly recommend to watch it...

 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1166827/

 catwoman, can you let us know what kind of resources ottoman was invading other countries for?

Why don´t you read some books and educate yourself first.

Now you have me laughing.  The U.S. committed the biggest terrorist activties in the world and the biggest war crimes.  Let´s not forget history handsom and let´s not forget what Saddam did to his own people.  Whether we should have gone into Iraq is debatable, but we certainly didn´t go in to kill thousands of innocent people for the hell of it.  I see it in a totally different light for some of the actions my country has done, has saved MORE lives than they have killed by their actions in the scheme of things.  I don´t agree how long we have been in Iraq, nor can I fathom why my country would think we could bring democracy to a bunch of crazies in the Middle East, but they did.  Forgive us...

 well what i read and understood from history books is that judging history according to todays logic and conditions is no better than ignorance. and comparing what f.cking  US government ( not people) is doing in iraq and what ottomans did hundreds of years ago is no better than stupidity.

good night turkey,

have a good day  America, The Saver of  the World

 To know that 45 % USA think that Bush just want to bring democracy to middle east is scaring me :S

Ciko, the voice of wisdom, don´t comment if you don´t understand please! I strongly encourage you to read more, because I don´t have time to reply to your uneducated posts.

(P.S. do not call my posts stupid, because I will have to delete that)

I dont think you realise what you have done..

let me remind you:

-you invaded a country which was nothing to do with you.(You acted as a bully without any UN mandate)

-you are the reason for Iraq´s one million dead people. (Dont say that you are not..who is responsible then? you invaded, removed their army, removed its authority ...)

-you caused 2 million iraqi refugees to other countries (right now many iraqi women and girls are working as prostitutes .)

-2 million internal iraqi refugees..

And you still support this?

If those are not the biggest war crimes in recent history and the most disgusting terrorist acts what else?

You have NOT brought democracy..

Nobody wants the democracy you may bring.

You are not wanted there..

Nobody asked you to go there.

It is a crime against humanity and you are still supporting it.

Forgive you?

Dont make me laugh!!

Teaschip, let´s not forget that Saddam was the friend of US, trained by them. Saddam was doing these things to his own people for a long time and it was not much of a concern. Just like Darfur is not. Why do you think your country went to Iraq to "bring democracy" with tanks and weapons, eh? Your country´s intelligence agency is much smarter then you give them credit. If they wanted to support democracy, they would support democratic movements in that country, but intead they were supporting Saddam. They do this with every group they want the support of. They did it with Islamists, with Bin Laden. They know what to do to support a group or an ideology.

Look, CIA killed 6 million people in third world countries in secret operations. If these operations were not to be secret what reason do you think they would have to give you so that you agree on them? Well... they would try to make you more nationalistic, they would paint those people as "crazies" and they would say that their mission is to spread peace. And that´s what they did with Iraq. Your job is to think more critically. And I would also like to ask you to not call those people "crazies", ok? You know NOTHING about them!

The US Third World War

US Millitary aggression 1890 - 2008

William Blum on US Imperialism (short trailer)

I´m not going to argue with you about Saddam or why we went to Iraq and why bringing democracy brings tanks, or how many people the U.S. has killed over the years. What I do know is that  leopards don´t change their spots unless you want to argue that point as well. 

 I don´t know what leopards have to do with this...open your eyes Teaschip. Read some of the information regarding the invasion of Iraq. There were NO WMDs and it was known. Have you ever heard of Scott Ritter? He wrote about the lack of them before the war started.

Have you ever heard of Naomi Klein and her book

Many have profited from it. Private contractors like Blackwater, CACI, Haliburton and KBR have done very well $$$ The Military Indu$trial Complex has done very well.

At least a million Iraq have lost their lives, how millions have been displaced or wounded.

I for one am deeply ashamed of what has been going on for the last 7 years. 

Turkish pressmen cheat death in Georgia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_TTInwQfdk&feature=related

US bringing humane aid to Georgia with warships through blacksea, what a baloney , and our slave government let them pass the Bosphorus, thus our environmetalist!! prime minister´s caucasian project fizzled out because he forgot to ask US

All governments around the world are slaves by your own definition. The only exceptions are Castro, Chavez, Saddam and Ahmedi Najad. One is retired, the other has been declared mad, and the third has been executed and the last one has been intimidated. I don´t even remember the name of the North Korean leader. It is really advantageous to be result oriented. You can either call people slaves or clowns in the absence of it. Truth be told, we are slaves altogether not just our governments.

 ehhh, i think you got bored, enjoy this ,