Thousands of innocent Palestinians have been barbarously slaughtered by Israel since 1947 regardless they are children, women, sick or elderly! Palestinian lands have been occupied by Israel step by step since 1947. Today % 75 of Palestinian lands is occupied by Israel! Israel aspires to obliterate whole Palestinian nation! Gaza blockade is a part of that bloody plan! Israel defrauds Palestinians and Gaza Citizens living rights! The main aim of Israel is to destroy whole Palestinians and occupy whole Palestinian lands!  Conscience owner humans cannot condone a nation’s annihilation regardless their religions, languages or colors! Gaza blockade has to been canceled! Israel has to draw back from Palestinian lands! It’s time to move before Palestinian Nation hasn’t destroyed at all! Israel’s bloody plans have to be STOPPED before its savagery shuts in the world! Because Israel is Terrorist! Israel is Pirate! Israel is Occupant! Israel is Killer!!!!

I don´t know why, but some contra-voices are echoing in my mind right now, like "Palestinians are terrorists. They are all potential killers. They are bombs and bombers in Tel Aviv. They have bombed and killed many innocent Jews. Arafat is/was a terrorist."

Do these voices sound, in way or another, familiar to anyone?

Here´s the voice Saying Israel is a killer since 1947 is totally forgetting the actual history of this big mess. I know people who have lost their children in bus-bombings in Israel. A more nuanced view is in order here. Israel has some evil people in power, just like the Palestines have (and had) some evil people in power. It´s not doves against hawks here. However, saying that Israel is an occupier now, defying human rights and international agreements, is totally right.

On the same note: I was looking for a boycot list of product made in Israel, but I keep finding lists that include everything that also supports, or is owned by Jewish people, or is made by companies that in the past have done business with Israel. I don´t want to boycot that. Just a "made in" list would be nice. Anybody knows such a list?

List of Products from Settlements in the Occupied Territories 

this  list is from the Gush Shalom website.

The Jewish Voice for Peace was down when I was writing this...but this is their url....

The BDS site has this... and the Israeli barcode starts with 729

This is the top ten list from the BDS Global Movement website.

I have removed the list per Trudy´s request....because she was afraid of "copwrite issues" ? I guess this is what was referred to (?)

Which seems very odd to me....seeing as whole articles have been posted here with no attribution or link....go figure????

Israel is killer. Israel is the main source of terrorism in the world! Their barbaric acts that is based on Israel´s paranoid religional ideas like promised lands, creates a land of fear both for Palestine and Israel. The more Israel fear, the more they become barbarian!

What kind of "so called" human can kill women, children, elderly and sick? We talk about ten thousands here!

Here is the story of two basic people among these thousands.

Rachel Aliene Corrie (April 10, 1979 – March 16, 2003) was an American member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM). She was killed in the Gaza Strip by an Israel Defence Forces (IDF) bulldozer while attempting to prevent IDF forces from demolishing the home of local Palestinian Samir Nasrallah. The IDF has claimed that the death has been due to restricted angle of view of the D9 bulldozer driver. The New York Times said Corrie and others were acting as "human shields." A student at the Evergreen State College, she had taken a year off and traveled to the Gaza Strip during the Second Intifada.^{[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie}

Furkan Dogan was a nineteen year old boy who was on Mavi Marmara as a peace activist. He was shut by head with four bullets and a bullet to his chest.

What kind of ideology can do that savagery? What could a 24 year old girl and 19 year old boy do to a fair country?

The ideology of Israel is absolute selfishness. They believe no one’s lives are valuable but Jews.

What makes Israel a disgusting killer is this schizophrenic obsession!

+1000

When I do shopping from supermarket, I try to check where there are from. ..I discovered recently, there are many avocados and dates are coming from Israel.. I am not buying them those despite the fact that  specially the dates looks delicious and juicy..

Israel is the source of all terrorism?! WHAT?! Come onnn, so it´s also Israel´s fault that Somali pirates are attacking ships? I have thought you a bit more educated oeince...

By the way, I can also put great stories on here of people who died in bus bombings from Palestine terrorist. There are many sides to every story. But believe me, Israel is not part of EVERY story in the world.

Your recent answers reveal a universal aspect of possibly all humans: when their country or ethnic origins are in question, roles change. You find yourself acting exactly the way Turks do when they deal with the criticism about their country. With matters buried in the ashes of history, eg the Armenian question etc, this could be justified to some extent. Patriotism makes you so blind, you cannot see the reality although reality is broadcast on mass media day in and day out where perpetrators have the nerve to appear live to peek fun at all the world.

I´m neither Jewish nor Israeli and I´m siding with Palestinians as far as the conflict is concerned. Still, the statement that "Israel is the main source of terrorism in the world!" is way exaggerated. Israel is guilty of war crimes, terrorism seems more of an Islamic fundamentalist domain. Israel´s actions are local, they don´t spread worldwide, which makes Oeince´s statement false.

Well, Daydreamer, ever heard Mossad. If so, ever wondered why they are so ubiquitous?

Israel has never played for small stakes. They did whatever it took to play the game according to their own rules.

I think what Oeince means is that much of the current world problems come out of the conflict with Israel. It is somewhat like a wound that has gotten infected and now infects the other parts of the body. The whole Islamic world has been upset at how things have been going, and feeling powerless and humiliated about it.  How many International laws have been snubbed? How many UN resolutions have been broken? How many of the Geneva Conventions have been broken?

Note, it was not said they were the perpretators, but the source. However, one should ignore their many acts of terrorism, they are just more sophisticated.

In the end, I don´t really think it has much to really do with Israel itself, but rather they are a pawn in a deadly game of power and conquest. Let´s remember, we are talking about the entry into the Fertile Crescent... how many throughout time have lusted after that piece of territory? 

The Israelis are fighting for their existance. They are a traumatized people who are not reacting in a sane manner. Likewise for the Palestinians, all these years of death, mutilation, land loss and untold humiliation have taken a deadly toll.  So, we have two deeply traumatized people fighting for their existance. I wish there were someone, something to call time out.  Everyone needs to chill out.

Why can´t the land could be shared?  I don´t understand the law that allows someone whose mother´s mother´s mother.......was a "Jew" if they even believe in a Divine Power or not, to take land from people who have lived there for millennia....people who are indigenous.  I have to ask myself, what would Moses have said? What would he have called them? The Palestinians did not just appear there a few years ago.  They have deep roots. You can not just uproot them.

I once spoke with an Israeli man, who told me he was an athiest.  I asked him what he was doing in Israel, seeing as to him it wasn´t the Promised Land........this I don´t undersand....  actually, there are some other things I don´t understand 

Until they learn to share the land and resources, there will not be peace.

Mossad? i don´t think they´re the only intelligence agency out there. Or the most successful one for that matter.

What terrorist actions has Israel been the source of globally? In the last 20 years?

Oh it would be lovely if Palestinians and Israelis just shook hands, kissed each other on the cheek and lived in peace. This seems unlikely though (unfortunately for the common citizens of both countries).

Do you know the name of your country´s own intelligence agency. For my own part, I have never heard. Most European countries must have kept theirs so secret, people don´t even know their names.  As a matter of fact, there are just a few of them known by everyone: CIA, KGB, FBI and MOSSAD. MOSSAD has always been one of the most active secret services.

Isn´t yours the MIT? That name I´ve read quite often in thrillers about Turkey. The Dutch one is called AIVD.

+ 100000! Well said!

Israel is the main source of global terrorism!

The power flows across countries and powerful countries create their own social system from the beginning of the world! Wars are used to be an important argument to create the social system that the powerful countries like.

 There were wars while Egyptians were building pyramids based on a significant scientific background; there were wars when Roman Empire were developing modern law, wars were still there when Greeks were establishing philosophical thinking way and it was the same when Ottoman Empire spreads Islamic thinking.

However, these wars were being made between armies; the societies weren’t been tortured and exploited until the exploration of America. The world has witnessed genocides after that event. This was not a war between armies. This was absolute destroy of some nations. Millions of people have been killed in America just because they are others! Lucky locals have been slaves in the worst conditions that the world ever seen. Natural sources of those people have been captured. Therefore, while some nations were being destroyed, the killers were been being richer. Mercantilism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism owns its roots to that enrichment.

Thrived nations have made industrial revaluation by the exploited labour force of others! They needed more and more slaves and they have fallen to a new imperialism competition. They destroyed many nations especially in Africa. So that, they owned new labour forces and natural sources. Today’s economical understanding, capitalism, is based on that imperial culture.

Jews did not own a country while these developments were happening. They were living almost in all countries, especially in developing ones.  Jews were always good at commerce. Thanks to their closed social structures and commerce talents, Jews improved their capital stock. The main aim of those savings was using them to receive their “so called” promised lands.

Coming to the end of 1800s Jews owned a very important asset. They were able to that the USA will be the most effectual power of the world in the close future. They began to create strong links with that country. They have placed significant roles in US government and economy. They needed the US to receive their “promised lands”

During the wars era, Jews began their occupying actions in Palestine. After the first and second world war, along with the US became the world’s super power, they have turned back to “promised lands”. They have occupied Palestine on 1948 and established Israel! Now 75 % of Palestinian lands are occupied. Ten thousands of people are killed.

Today, Jews own the biggest companies of the world. They own the biggest gun companies too. Every single lands of the world mean sources to Israel. The most innocent action of them is to dominance foreign economies. Whoever displays a resistance to Israel’s wishes are enemies. After 9/11 terrorists. They need new lands first to sell guns, than their products. They buy governments for their sakes. They provoke ethnic groups to create new wars and instability in where they want.  Just one sample, In Congo 1.5 million people killed each other just in one night and 5 millions as a total! Now Congo changed their name as Democratic. Sarcastic ha? If they own Jewish guns and American bases, if they consume Jewish products or provide natural sources for Jewish, they are democratic.

If a person believes in just his life is valuable but not any others; if he is spiritually married to god and god just loves him; if he won’t be punished for his actions; if everything is possible for him; he will be harmful for its neighbourhood. But if the richest nation and its gunned power believes that; this idea just brings barbaric terrorism for the whole world!

Read Daydreamers remark, that´s how I feel. I just had a BIG problem with saying that Israel seems to be the source of all evil. Tell me, if you don´t agree with my previous remark, then HOW is Israel responsible for the Somali pirates? And to make something clear. I feel Dutch. I feel no connection towards Israel, besides having friends there. I am more connected to Turkey than to Israel. The only thing in Israel that is important to me is the Wailing Wall, which I would like to see one time in my life.

KGB is pretty darn busy too. Still today people seem to "vanish in to thin air" even though the KGB isn´t called KGB anymore. Thinking Mossad is the busiest of them all is a bit naive (Yes, I know, shocking. ME calling somebody else naive! )

To Oeince, it seems to me that people have this weird idea about all Jews being in business, and being good at commerce because of their DNA. The Jewish people got into trade because they were often not allowed to own land. In the olden days, businesses went from father to son (like a farm-land was passed on) but since the Jews were not allowed to own land, it was the trade business that was handed down. This did not happen for ALL Jews though. Yes, this might be shocking to you (insert sarcastic tone), but there ARE poor Jews, and even Jews that are beggers. The Jewish part of my family were simple workers. Not rich, not powerfull. It is the Christian Dutch part that worked for the bank And the whole idea that the Jews own everything... well, where is your proof? The percentage of the American people that is Jewish is tiny. There are more people living in Istanbul then there are Jews around the world.

 Israel is the main source of global terrorism!

Could you provide your source for this statement or other wise modify this post please and the previous one where you made this statement.  Thank you.

Barba mama when i build my ideas about a social group, i do not reference to realtively uneffectful members of the group. I try to generalize according to the whole members actions. So i do not imply your relatives.

Coming to Somali, the same situation in Congo is valid in Somali.

Libralady, i cant understand you clearly, you want the link of the article or a proof about Isarels murders?

These are my articles so i cant show you the sources.

And about murders i just referred two single deaths. You can see ten thousands of others if you just google Israel.

To add one more goverment murder please check http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/world/main6219372.shtml

Oince, Israel is not the source of all evil. We criticize Isreal for her aggressive policies which result in loss of life as was the case with the recent incident. I would also agree with you when you crticize the Israeli government for its nationalistic policies. We know that Jews have a lot of power in America through their high level contacts. This way they are instrumental in shaping the generally aggressive aspects of the American foreign policy. They seem to capitalize on the naive urban cowboy type machoism. I would conclude, Israel has always been a co-founder of the neo-con stance which has irritated even the modertely patriotic Americans. All these point out to the presence some mechanism that functions outside the legal boundaries.

Still, it would be a gross exageration to say Isreal is the source of all evil. Jews are both good and bad just like any other people. It is the government that shapes the policies. No government in the world can be completely benign.

+one million for you vineyards.  

The problems in this region are complex and involve many governments (including my own) over a long period of time.  I can´t help but think that maybe when we all stop blaming each other something can actually be done to help the Palestinians.  As an individual who has limited control over what my government does, I have chosen to boycott Israel.  I would encourage everyone to do the same.  

Oeince - I think what LL meant was that you said "Israel is the main source of global terrorism!" and you didn´t state what terrorist action outside Israel they are responsible for (I can think of Egypt only). And you somethow smoothly go from Israel to Jews. Are you aware of the fact that not all Jews are Israeli? Are you aware of the fact that colonisation main flow happened back in the days when Jews were having a really hard time in Europe? They are no more guilty of providing guns to conflict zones than the US, Russia or the Middle East.

BM explained why Jews specialised in trade and saying that the US looks after Isreal´s business better than it does after its own is not true either.

Everything in the world related to human and societies is extremely complex. However, all events have major reasons and related reasons.  

In my opinion, the main reason of global terrorism is Jewish beliefs obsessions that I mentioned in my previous posts.  Because of the government of Israel is based on those obsessions, they do not hesitate to destroy anyone or any nations who for their sakes. They display their bloody face directly in Palestine. They use USA in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and etc. USA’s economical expectations are in coordination with Israel’s political aims. We can witness that coordination clearly in Great Middle East Project. If we bear in mind that FED‘s Board and Advisory Council, President’s Advisory Council and other important positions are occurred by Jews; biggest global incorporations are owned by Jews; refusing that coordination just becomes imaginariness. It is remarkable that Egypt is the first foreign aid receiver of the US. Probably that is why Refah border door is closed for about five years.

The most significant argument to realize Israel and USA’s aims is Capitalism. So that while capital owners improve their assets, others are getting poorer. This inequity brings social conflicts attendantly. So the problems in poorer countries where Israel and the US want to keep instable, turns to be inextricably chaotic.

In conclusion, I believe the main reason of global terrorism is Jews and Israel’s obsessed ambitions. They use USA as a gunned power and capitalism as a socio-economic power to reach their dreams.

Together with that, I don’t mean Israel is the only evil in the world. Losing ethical values, selfishness, extreme competition, ethnocentrism etc. etc. are different significant reasons of social demolish. These matters are valid in the whole world regardless the religions or economic wealth. Even we can witness these problems even more in poorer Muslim countries. But these are sider affects of results of obsessed aggressive policies and capitalism.

I don’t think that all Jews are pushy. There are a lot of Jews in or outside of Israel who are against Israel Governments actions. There are a lot of young people whom rejects to join or resign Israeli army because of their aggressor policies. Even there is a group in Israel who wishes that Israel is to be destroyed (According to Jewish belief Israel will be destroyed just before doomsday and these groups wishes to see the doomsday)

It is easy to widen simples about peaceful Jews. However currently, most effectful Jews are obsessed and militant. Whom I mean in my comments is this group.

 Generalizing should be done based on the majority of a people. The majority of Jewish people are not the high and mighty. A lot of people have the idea that the American government has a high percentage of Jewish people, as well as the business world. However, when you look at the numbers, it just isn´t true. The only business that Jewish people are overly represented in in the U.S. are jewelries and show business (mainly comedy).

I always ask for proof, so let me give my own proof in this case The American (current) cabinet: President Obama, Vice President Biden, Clinton, Geithner, Gates, Holder, Salazar, Vilsack, Locke, Solis, Sebelius, LaHood, Dunca, Shinseki, and Napolitano are all Christian or brought up Christian. I´m not sure about Shaun Donovan. But from his family´s background it´s highly likely that he was brought up Christian but doesn´t have a religion now. In any case he´s not a Jew. Steven Chu is also not a Jew for sure. The most fitting lable would be humanist. So...no Jews in the American cabinet.

..........well that very much depends on just what one thinks is effective.  I can think of many Jews who are effective and not violent. Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, Naomi Klein who wrote the Shock Doctrine and other powerful books and articles, then of course, Noam Chomsky, Charlie Chaplin, John Stewart of the Daily Show...and I could go on and on....the contribution to culture and society by Jews has been tremendous.  I would not confuse Jews with what is going on in Israel.  In many ways I feel the Jews are being used as pawns themselves. It´s unfortunate too many are falling into the trap. There is an active peace block, but they have been overpowered...for now. Uri Avnery´s Gush Shalom,  B´Tselem.........and I could go on and on....

BTW why are your posts posted in such tiny font? You could write in a word processor, then bring it into notepad and past it into your message. That way the font would be standard for this forum. It´s hard to read your posts, and your posts are very long and difficult to read. If you want your message to get through, it has to be easy to read.  Something I´m working on myself....

Many people stated this but I also want to reiterate this warning: Let´s not turn criticism of the state of Israel into racism against Jewish people. Racism is something we don´t allow or tolerate on this site. 

If a social group insists on their mistakes, individual’s responsibility would be to criticize those! The world’s public opinion condoned Israel’s savagery due to the psychological superiority of Anti-Semitism idea. I realize that this idea is even a part of psychological war. The world, especially Europeans have to get rid of the sense of guilt. Innocent people of the world are with suffering people but if those suffering ones turn to be cruel, the same people of the world disapprove them.

I don’t like to personalize my comments about a global problem but, when I saw Auscwitz and Birkenau I condemned the savagery with very strong feelings. However I believe I still have to stay objective as much as I can. I think we must look at the whole picture and we must build up our ideas according to realizing events. We must limit emotional affects and taboos as much as we can to remain objective.

Addressing someone as “Racist” for he criticized Jewish obsessions and Israel Government’s acts is ruthlessness. Especially if the answerer mainly aims peace for the whole world!

I repeat again not to be understood wrong, I do not mean the Jewish people who just work, watch TV in the evening and mostly care about his/her family. I love those people and I know that we agree with those Jewish people. The group I mean on my comments is the ones who make bloody plans behind closed to create riots in the world.

If the public opinion could talk about Hitler clearly and could stop him before he burns the world, we would not lose 50 million individuals (5.5 million of them were genocide) and 75 million people as a total!

So please do not hesitate of telling the truth before the world burns again! Innocents have to be as brave as killers for a peaceful world! That is why I will repeat again and again! Israel and obsessed Jews are killers and they are the main source of terrorism in the world!

Alameda, than you for your advices i will keep those in my mind. And thank you for notepad info, i really needed that.

Obsessed muslims kill too... obsessed christians kill too, obsessed anything kills. You were called a racist because you connected people of a certain religion to worldwide violence without any proof. Instead of saying "I don´t agree with the actions of the current Israeli government" you firstly connected the country to violence it can´t possible be responsible for, and then connected all Jews to that violence. I want you to feel bad about that because it´s just racism, not because Jews died in WW2.

What do you mean I don´t know you? If I´m not mistaken you are one of the people I´ve met in person. I suggested that these were not your words basing on the level of English between this thread´s posts and your earlier ones. They somehow do not seem to be written by the same person. Unless of course I am wrong. I can´t really see where I accused you of lying. I just asked you to provide sources of what you typed in your posts.  

Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince

BM, if you investigate what motivates Israel and Israel diaspora for their bloody plans, you would be ashamed of your blames on me.

We have to state the main problem clearly.

Any bliefs offer promised lands, any blief claims a sipiritual wedding between god and believers, any belief reveals just the believers lives are valuable.

I offer you to open up your mind and try to see the whole picture.

Ofcourse I know about the "promised land", but you are linking things the wrong way. Just because Israeli government uses religious claims to kill people, doesn´t mean that all people of that religion are killers, or believe in those claims. Remember the terrorists who crashed those planes on 9/11, who used religious islamic claims for their killings. This doesn´t mean that all Muslims are killers, or believe in what those terrorists believed.

You have also linked worldwide terror to Israel. And now you only mention the promised land, which is a small geographical area.

Do you see my problems with your claims? You are taking something wrong (Israeli actions) and spinning it into something that´s just not true, and you are losing credit this way.

BM, did you really read my statemens? If yes, you should be blind not to see many paragraphs like this one;

I repeat again not to be understood wrong, I do not mean the Jewish people who just work, watch TV in the evening and mostly care about his/her family. I love those people and I know that we agree with those Jewish people. The group I mean on my comments is the ones who make bloody plans behind closed to create riots in the world.

I did read what you said. You said "Israel is the source of all terrorism", "During the wars era, Jews began their occupying actions in Palestine. After the first and second world war, along with the US became the world’s super power, they have turned back to “promised lands”. They have occupied Palestine on 1948 and established Israel!" and you said "Today, Jews own the biggest companies of the world. They own the biggest gun companies too. Every single lands of the world mean sources to Israel. The most innocent action of them is to dominance foreign economies"

You were clearly talking about "the Jews" and made ugrounded claims, only based on your biased view. Jewish people do not own the biggest companies in the world (I happen to research the biggest companies in the world for my job, so I know who owns who). You say Israel or the Jews or whatever became a superpower, which is also an ungrounded claim. You say things that you don´t have proof for, and some people (who don´t research these kind of things more precisely) might believe you. This is dangerous, and a source of racism.

You can have a problem with Israel, yes, but just base that on the FACTS please. I also have a big problem with Israel, with their occupier role in the last few years, and their aggressive stance. I base this on facts. I don´t make up stories about Jewish people or world power.

Actually there ar too many books and a lot of debates under my statements. So i stand behind every singe words of them.

However, i think everything must have an end. Dou you also think that we shall stop that arguement? All people who joined the discussion told enough to state their points of views.

we agree to disagree

I find it hard to believe that a person´s level of English can change so significantly, especially grammar-wise. The difference is too striking, but, it doesn´t matter. I just stated my opinion.

I wasn´t going to reply to your PM anyway, so don´t worry about that. However, I can´t promise not to comment on your posts. I always say the things I want to say, regardless of whether other people are interested in what I have to say or not But, should that please you, you may choose to ignore my comments. I won´t take it amiss

oeince, I can´t find any evidence that would indicate that this is not your work.  I am sure you have read many articles and books on the subject and are pulling from a multitude of sources when you post your thoughts. 

As a reminder, the forum rule regarding citing materials in Turkish Language Class goes as follows:

12.  Any message with more than a few sentences copied from another source must give the source with the copied text. Excessive copying from other sources must be avoided. Instead of pasting a whole article please post a link to the article and your thoughts about it in a few sentences.

As daydreamer has said, she was only stating her opinion of your posts and that she believes your posts do not look like your own work because of the differences in language usage. 

To the best of my ability, I have not been able to find any work on the internet close to what oeince has posted here on TC. 

Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince

Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince
Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince

I expect someone making an academic career to know that it is very rude to publish a private message in a public forum. 

I guess we need to ask you what rights we have from now on. Does anybody have a right to disagree with you? 

Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince

oeince - the more you dwell on daydreamer´s claim, the more you are proving it to be true. If you think it is nothing but an accusation, you have right and (language) tools to defend yourself; if you have further proofs (like publications) then simply show/reference them. If you think you don´t have to take all this burden just because of an accusation, then why don´t you simply take it easy?

Edited (6/7/2010) by oeince

Is it not comprehensible that one´s language style changes as the thing being communicated changes?

It would appear he worked on these statements for a while in a word processor and then pasted the work.  That resulted in funny looking text. I know my style of writing changes depending on what I´m writing about.

Many of use here study the Turkish language. Of course our style would change after months or years of study.

This is absolutely how it happened. In order that thread is important for me i wrote my statements on the word processer and spent some time to select the right expressions. Afreall, i pasted my writings here.

As I told before, you are veryfying her claim!

The claim in question has nothing to do with on which platform you wrote or whether you first wrote on the word processor and then paste it here. It has nothing to do with font and font-size change, either. As far as her claim is concerned, the difference between language levels in your writing and your usual posts (like the ones above/below) counts. I simply wanted to point out this and told that you yourself are proving her claim to be true.

(Notice the parts in red bold)

This seems a reasonable explanation of why some here may perceive a difference in Oeince´s work.  As I understand him, some of his posts are writings that he has pre prepared (not originally intended for this site - an assignment of some kind perhaps?), spending time on crafting/perfecting them, whilst others are more spur of the moment posts, when he has taken less time over "quality" of grammar. 

Oeince has put a lot of time and effort into his posts, and I think he has a right to defend himself vociferously regarding the accusation of plagiarism.

Please note, I am not making any judgement about anyone´s views about the subject matter.

I do that too sometimes. Then the way I write or speak to say, my elders, is not the same as I would communicate with my peers.  Then how I speak to children is again another "language", so to speak.

peacetrain - You stated exactly my thought, on a different aspect of the problem. You are right. Now the question is, to what extent? Even if worked hard on a text, could a non-native speaker with certain language level reach at the level, that has been in question here?

I am not making any judgement here, either.

Now this has reached a point it never should have. After all, it´s not important whether or not oeince wrote it himself or researched the subject and posted a collection of other people´s ideas.What we should (and already have as a matter of fact) focus on is the content. A lot of users expressed their opinions and that´s it.

Disclaimer:

Expressing doubt concerning the origin of Oeince´s posts was NOT a personal attack. It was an observation. I´m not the only user asking for links and sources in this forum (right, Alameda) Personal attack would be commenting on one´s character, life or intelligence. My disbelief concerned merely the words posted. ([sarcasm]a person as fluent in English as him would surely be able to tell the difference [ /sarcasm/] instead of crying about it to the admins)*

*the words in brackets are not meant to be a personal attack either but if anybody feels they are, have fun reporting me to the admins

here is the link where i have cited my answer to your last post mrs. english teacher...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ho0_pink-floyd-another-brick-in-the-wal_music

Quoting Daydreamer

"...I´m not the only user asking for links and sources in this forum (right, Alameda) ...

 

 

right....and mostly ignored I might add....

You can be a legendary journalist but when you do not say the right words about Israel, you find yourself in a big trouble:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10259646.stm

And we thought, Obama would change somethings...

I am not surprised about the dismiss of Helen Thomas.

Israel and USA never have been democratic and tolerant.

The situation will be even worse after USA lose her economic power.

..........I worked as a volunteer on his campaign...I can´t say I expected as big a change as many, however the alternative was much worse.  Think about it, it could have been John McCain and Sarah Palin.The kill the wolves and  "Drill Baby drill" team.....

Who I really wanted was Dennis Kucinich, but he didn´t have enough money. He was not popular with the "right" people. 

 I am honestly not trying to be funny....but do you think that looks have something to do with how popular a candidate is?  I was doing some research for a project and was asked this very question.  My findings were that people vote for who they find attractive.  Of course people have different views of what is attractive...but it is an interesting point.  Now back to Israel....

I´ve read studies that showed the same thing...a full head of hair and being taller counts too. It is unfortunate, really that we (humans) are so shallow. That is why marketing works so well. Have you seen Century of Self? It´s a good series. Informative indeed.

Torches of Freedom......ugh.....

Unfortunately this is why I am convinced we will never have politics in our country that makes sense!  I think Dennis Kucinich is just about the only politician who has said anything intelligent about the Israel situation...it is just unfortunate that his face looks like an old handbag.  Just not fair.