Living - working in Turkey |
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is a relationship between turkish man and english woman possible??????
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| 150. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:08 am |
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From what I can tell, you don't care about having friends or how people feel or if you offend people...but you do care about what seems to be a one-woman battle to free oppressed Turkish women from their culture and religion, and the only reason they are not complaining and asking to be saved , is because they cannot see what you see. Is that right?
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| 151. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:22 am |
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Is idiocy contagious?
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| 152. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:24 am |
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Quoting xkirstyx: From what I can tell, you don't care about having friends or how people feel or if you offend people...but you do care about what seems to be a one-woman battle to free oppressed Turkish women from their culture and religion, and the only reason they are not complaining and asking to be saved , is because they cannot see what you see. Is that right? |
it doesnt concern only turkish women, it concerns all muslimahs, starting from the western europe ending on indonesia.
OMG, have again offended people? 
i honestly dont care for having friends, friends will come and go, most of them never stay with you all your life. do you remember you friends from a junior school, do you still care for them, although you called them your friends? see, its just a matter of time and circumstances. today they are your friends tomorrow they are gone with wind.
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
if a young muslimah complains about an arranged marriage and wants another man, she maybe killed (widely and freely executed in the muslim communities even in the western countries). dont pretend you dont know such incidents called "honor killings". so you choose to complain or not.
why dont you move to your husbands country to live in? why do most of european women who married muslim boys dont live in muslim countries? why?
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| 153. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:36 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting xkirstyx: From what I can tell, you don't care about having friends or how people feel or if you offend people...but you do care about what seems to be a one-woman battle to free oppressed Turkish women from their culture and religion, and the only reason they are not complaining and asking to be saved , is because they cannot see what you see. Is that right? |
it doesnt concern only turkish women, it concerns all muslimahs, starting from the western europe ending on indonesia.
OMG, have again offended people?
i honestly dont care for having friends, friends will come and go, most of them never stay with you all your life. do you remember you friends from a junior school, do you still care for them, although you called them your friends? see, its just a matter of time and circumstances. today they are your friends tomorrow they are gone with wind.
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
if a young muslimah complains about an arranged marriage and wants another man, she maybe killed (widely and freely executed in the muslim communities even in the western countries). dont pretend you dont know such incidents called "honor killings". so you choose to complain or not.
why dont you move to your husbands country to live in? why do most of european women who married muslim boys dont live in muslim countries? why? |
do not believe this woman ,it is simply false that because she is already crazy and say lying on Islam
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| 154. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:42 am |
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Quoting elham: Quoting femme_fatal:
whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam? |
dear femme be sure if you still attacking Islam, you will loss all your friends Muslim or non Muslim by this way of discussion,
Islam is not your business,and dont worry about women's right
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whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam?
femme's question is right question.
How come you miss this very basic point: If there is an idea, there will be criticisims as well.
Right, lets go to the book.
Can anybody tell me that Islam gives same right to women as well as men? Give me the name of the verses from Kuran. I will go and read it again, I promise.
What are you talking about here. Even the most sophisticated muslim 'alim' wont say anything about equality. He will try to explain 'god did not create us equal. Women has different job to do in this world etc etc'.
we know that, it is written, men will get virgins in the other world. can you show me what women will get? a single verse?
we know that, men can punish disobediant wifes, it is written. can you show me what women can do to their husbands? a verse?
we know that, inheritance is not equal between men and women. can you show me it is not?
we know that, a man can marry more than one wife. anything for women?
addition:
I just saw it
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
That is correct. They have no right to complain.
About Turkish women, @kirsty, Of course they complain.
How do you know they dont?
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| 155. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:42 am |
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Quoting xkirstyx: From what I can tell, you don't care about having friends or how people feel or if you offend people... |
I would say that assuming these statements do need a great deal of gutts, to say so. Can you imagine anyone craving for isolation and offence? I cannot!
Quoting xkirstyx:
but you do care about what seems to be a one-woman battle to free oppressed Turkish women from their culture and religion, and the only reason they are not complaining and asking to be saved , is because they cannot see what you see. Is that right? |
why it has to be like THEY cannot see what ONE can see. Why defining a one person battle with an entire opposing society here?
What is your opinion on this?
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| 156. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 12:43 am |
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Quoting vineyards: Is idiocy contagious? |
No. Idiocy is a mental retardation.
Attitudes, beliefs are those that can be contagious, depending on how one values them... sharing an ideal or decontaminating people.
And that goes just similar with the usage of certain words.
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| 157. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 01:54 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting elham: Quoting femme_fatal:
whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam? |
dear femme be sure if you still attacking Islam, you will loss all your friends Muslim or non Muslim by this way of discussion,
Islam is not your business,and dont worry about women's right
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whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam?
femme's question is right question.
How come you miss this very basic point: If there is an idea, there will be criticisims as well.
Right, lets go to the book.
Can anybody tell me that Islam gives same right to women as well as men? Give me the name of the verses from Kuran. I will go and read it again, I promise.
What are you talking about here. Even the most sophisticated muslim 'alim' wont say anything about equality. He will try to explain 'god did not create us equal. Women has different job to do in this world etc etc'.
we know that, it is written, men will get virgins in the other world. can you show me what women will get? a single verse?
we know that, men can punish disobediant wifes, it is written. can you show me what women can do to their husbands? a verse?
we know that, inheritance is not equal between men and women. can you show me it is not?
we know that, a man can marry more than one wife. anything for women?
addition:
I just saw it
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
That is correct. They have no right to complain.
About Turkish women, @kirsty, Of course they complain.
How do you know they dont?
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You are entitled to believe or not to believe in something. Believing is a voluntary act and it binds the believer. You may hate Islam and detest all its ways. Nonetheless, you need to respect the freedom of believers to believe in something. The only way you can complain of a faith is when your own freedom is at jeopardy because of the acts of the followers of that faith.
Those believers obviously govern their lives according to a different set of rules. There is currently no religion in the face of Earth that has caught up with the Internet age that we are in. It looks as if some religions are more civilized because many people don't observe the rules of their religions as strictly as before. This is true both for Turkey and Europe.
Every now and then, people come up with hurtful accusations directed at billions of believers who geniunely think they are following the word of God. You can't ridicule those people. Who are you to say the final word about whose faith is right and whose is wrong? How dare you have this omniscient point of view? Do you think people, despite having gone through millenia perfecting their civilizations are just a bunch of idiots and you are way smarter than them.
What you are inadvertantly refering to is the patriarchal family model. Would we have more freedom, if we were pagans or Christians? Do you suppose Greek, Bulgarian or Albanian husbands oppress their women less just because they are not Muslims. Every religion plays a more important role than it appears in governing people's lives. Just as eating, drinking or sex, believing is a basic necessity. Let people believe in whatever they want. This is also a prerequisite for people like us to exist.
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| 158. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 02:32 am |
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Quoting vineyards:
What you are inadvertantly refering to is the patriarchal family model. Woud we have more freedom, if we were pagans or Christians? Do you suppose Greek, Bulgarian or Albanian husbands oppress their women less just because they are not Muslims. Every religion plays a more important role than it appears in governing people's lives. Just as eating, drinking or sex, believing is a basic necessity. Let people believe in whatever they want. This is also a prerequisite for people like us to exist.
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I am a fruit, so i can have oppinions. My tree happens to be in the nearby of the upper-quoted countries. In the Balcanians religion has not much to do nowadays with oppressing woman. Let the people believe in what they want goes well while Divinity is involved. But on the social plan is not good at all, therefore rules exist, expressed in formal or informal laws. I always said let just do not let people in believeing what they want on society, because this is the condition for changing. And the world changes and changed ever since.
If freedom in believes, again, why should i be burned, like inquisition did to woman? Or why should i marry forcely? Why would God took me elementary freedom, while he can give this freedom to animal species? Where does this live me, then on the beings hierarchy?
By stating "opress less", you openly assume woman opression. How can you live with that? I could hardly leave as a child with that!! And no, there is no such big oppression in these countries. But there is sexual oppression. And that is worth a change also.
To christianity took a long way also from burning sorcerers to old-day society, when the church has less to say in woman's wright.
I am happy to live here, now and not to be burned as a dangerous representative of my species.
But why not benefit from other cultures experiences and achievements?
Freedom is very important, but along with cooperation and adjustment.
I don't say the alternative should be looked for in another religions.
I don't say religions are good or bad.
I would like that societyes could change in many ways regarding women rights. and freedom. But societyies are people, in essence. Me, you, us, them... we form the society. Of a country. Of a continent. Of a planet. If one man changes, that affects society. The more of them changing...
Believing in God is following the path towards the Creator. oppression is different, it is social. And social means that certain me, you, us, them...
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| 159. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 03:19 am |
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We are actually saying the same thing. Religion is a part of your identity. Nobody knows the ultimate purpose of existence of man on Earth. What is your suggestion? Should we constitutionaly ban religions? Religions do teach love, and tolerance too. It is evident that everyone doesn't care about those aspects of religions. Would they be able to become better individuals if we freed thems of the burden of their faiths?
Would we have fewer murderers or rapists? If the bond of religion among ordinary people were released, would people spontaneously metamorphose into self-contended flower children?
When making comparisons you should base your arguments on examples from similar socio-economic groups. The poorer a country is, the poorer the educational level of a greater percentage of its people will be. If you base your assumptions on how those ignorant people view their religion, you will end up with a wrong conclusion.
And don't forget Hitler was a Christian too and, he was a very smart person. Here is a quick quoatation from a web site at : http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
"Hitler's Christianity
To deny the influence of Christianity on Hitler and its role in World War II, means that you must ignore history and forever bar yourself from understanding the source of German anti-Semitism and how the WWII atrocities occurred.
By using historical evidence of Hitler's and his henchmen's own words, this section aims to show how mixing religion with politics can cause conflicts, not only against religion but against government and its people. This site, in no way, condones Nazism, Neo-Nazism, fascist governments, or anti-Semitism, but instead, warns against them.
by Jim Walker"
Now here is the question: hitler's understanding of the Christian faith had a massive following in his day. The result was a tragedy. Was it the Christian faith that was responsible for that? My answer will be no. I read about the life of Jesus Christ and I would say he would see no difference between Herod and him.
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| 160. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 03:38 am |
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I am amazed these religious, and in particular anti-Islamic posts in a Turkish Language forum have been allowed to continue. It is clearly against the rules here.
People are talking about things they know nothing about. It's rude and disruptive.
People spend years in theological schools studying these issues. There are many different schools of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and other religions. This is NOT the place to get into these dialogs.
What is the point? It looks like an attempt to provoke and agitate. If you want to debate religions, find a forum for that, don't do it here.
I would suggest not responding to Fem_Fatal's rude and insulting comments. Don't give her any fuel.
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