Living - working in Turkey |
Thread locked by a moderator or admin. |
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is a relationship between turkish man and english woman possible??????
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| 160. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 03:38 am |
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I am amazed these religious, and in particular anti-Islamic posts in a Turkish Language forum have been allowed to continue. It is clearly against the rules here.
People are talking about things they know nothing about. It's rude and disruptive.
People spend years in theological schools studying these issues. There are many different schools of Islam, Christianity, Judaism and other religions. This is NOT the place to get into these dialogs.
What is the point? It looks like an attempt to provoke and agitate. If you want to debate religions, find a forum for that, don't do it here.
I would suggest not responding to Fem_Fatal's rude and insulting comments. Don't give her any fuel.
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| 161. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 04:37 am |
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Also we can see from history that the Frenchs invaded Algeria and killed over 1 million civilian Algerians, a genocide. Italians invaded and killed hundreds of thousands of Libians, Spanians invaded South America and killed millions and converted all the people in christianity forcefully with assimilation, no need to mention England they invaded nearly the all world and so on. England, France, Italy and Greece tried to invade Anatolia in WW1 but thankfully they were kicked out. Will all of them apologize what they done the world? Lets see the barbarians then. Ohh i forgot, add these also the continent Africa and Australia. You just cant disguise the history and the facts.
And for the slanders about Islam, no need to mention all are crap, nothing to do with İslam.
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| 162. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 04:38 am |
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Quoting vineyards: Moderators, why aren't you taking action. What else does she have to say? |
What you want from who? Moderators are same. This site is a playground of some members only.
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| 163. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 04:54 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting elham: Quoting femme_fatal:
whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam? |
dear femme be sure if you still attacking Islam, you will loss all your friends Muslim or non Muslim by this way of discussion,
Islam is not your business,and dont worry about women's right
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whats wrong in attacking / criticising islam?
femme's question is right question.
How come you miss this very basic point: If there is an idea, there will be criticisims as well.
Right, lets go to the book.
Can anybody tell me that Islam gives same right to women as well as men? Give me the name of the verses from Kuran. I will go and read it again, I promise.
What are you talking about here. Even the most sophisticated muslim 'alim' wont say anything about equality. He will try to explain 'god did not create us equal. Women has different job to do in this world etc etc'.
we know that, it is written, men will get virgins in the other world. can you show me what women will get? a single verse?
we know that, men can punish disobediant wifes, it is written. can you show me what women can do to their husbands? a verse?
we know that, inheritance is not equal between men and women. can you show me it is not?
we know that, a man can marry more than one wife. anything for women?
addition:
I just saw it
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
That is correct. They have no right to complain.
About Turkish women, @kirsty, Of course they complain.
How do you know they dont?
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İts not İslam problem that women or men dont know their rights and duties in İslam.
İts NOT İslam problem that women dont complain if they dont have their rights.
And again,its NOT İslam problem that you dont know why ALLAH said so,or ordered so,and that you dont ask alim 'İslam teacher' to explain to you what you dont understand!
First,you ask what is wrong in attacking / criticising İslam,right ?
Ok i will ask you,what is wrong in attacking ,or criticising YOU ?
Religion to people who have Faith and believe in it,is not a game,its holly and respectable thing,not only İslam,but all religions,thats why you dont normally find Muslims people attack other religions,even that we dont agree with them !
You want to criticise ? you want to show that you dont agree with it for logical reasons you see ?
Do it with respect for both Religion and people who believe in it.
You want to debat ? to show your point of view ?
You wont do it alone,you wont debat with yourself, you will do it with other people,as they say,it takes 2 to Tango
And it takes 2 or more to make a debat too.
So you must do it with respect to other people points of view,believes,and above all religions.
İf you are seeking respect from others while debating,then you should offer same respect to them !
İf you attacked,criticise in no respectable mannars then you are not seeking a debat because no respectable person who really believe in his religion will accept insulting or attacking to his religion,as same you wont accept if someone attack you.
So ,what is your aim of attacking then ?!
Or what is your aim of debating ?!
Second,
Yes,women and men in İslam have equality in rights and duties as a whole,but not at same rights and duties...i will explain in a coming point.
You said, ''we know that, it is written, men will get virgins in the other world. can you show me what women will get? a single verse? ''
Yes, women will have too,but ALLAH didnt say it open as HE said regarding men,you know why ?
for 2 reasons actually.
-İf you have a little brother,and you want him to eat,or to study,so you promise him of something so good,and so dear to him if he did that,right ?
That is why ALLAH said that SPECİALLY to men.. and its obvious why !
- ALLAH kept women shyness by not talking frankly about it,but HE said we will have what ever we want !
As for verses,im not alim to tell you about them,but i pay little effort and try to ask for things that i dont understand!
Third,you are asking for verses about the relationship between husbands and wives, didnt you read that ALLAH asked men to be kind to their wives and to treat them kindly ?and there are lots of verses about it if you read them.
And who said ALLAH allow men to punish their wives ?!
Forth,you said ''we know that, inheritance is not equal between men and women. can you show me it is not?''
That is true,do you know why ?
To reach equality ,for MEN to be equal to women !
İn İslam,men should support women by all means even if she is wealthy, meaning,
Women before getting married,her father support her financially,and if her father is dead,her brother,..her uncle,and if she is married,then her husband.
And she shouldnt give them even a single PENNY of her money .
So suppose a brother and a sister their father died,both of them will inherit
1- if they inherit equally,so he will support her from his money,even if he is married,and she will save her money and wont spend anything even to buy a bread.
And he will support both her and his family.
2- he iherit more than she '1-2' she will save her money still,and he will support both her and his family.
3- if she is married,her money is TOTALY hers,neither her husband nor her kids has the right to take a penny from her,and he cant force her to spend anything in the house to help him EXCEPT by her own welling.
So what is more fair ? they 'brother and sister'take equal and he give her more money buy supporting her ? or he take more money and supporting her and bu all ways she will keep hers.
That is what i meant by saying not equal at same ways but equal at a whole .
She is having her rights back to her,and at the end they both are equal.
You said ''we know that, a man can marry more than one wife. anything for women? ''
Thas true men can marry more than 1 wife BUT... there are conditions for that, AND... he MUST inform his wife first and take her permission.
And wife can accept or not,if she doesnt accept,she let him choose between marrying the other girl or divorce her .
And if she accept,then its up to her.
İslam allow it in a legal form,and other religions dont allow it,but all the way women still find out about their men having afair with someone else !
So if you take a deep look,he actually have another woman in his life but not legally and without his wife permission !
İ guess its some men's nature ?!
And if women have same,so would they be able to tell which one is the son of who if the woman allowed to marry more than 1 man ?!
İt would be barbaric !
İn İslam,women should choose who they marry,MUST agree,if its not happeneing that way,if women dont practice that right,its their problem,its NOT İslam problem.
İts NOT İslam problem that you dont know your rights and your duties,and upon what base,its YOUR problem.
People grow up as their parents brought them up to be,some stop and question it,and some dont,some try to understand,and some dont.
Faith and believe are great thing,its the thing that makes you do something in a certain way not in the other,if you done it without understanding,it will be burden upon you.
İf you've done it while understanding why,you will do it because you are convenced,you would do it for a reason ,not because it said so.
There is great difference,and that is why attacking religions is a serious matter,because its attacking peoples Faith and believes.
Debating,is something else !
And what is the aim of attacking our religion,insulting us ?
That we abandon it and convert to other religion as that Hannity said ?!
NOPE,sorry,we WONT !
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| 164. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 05:13 am |
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Common Queries on Islam....
http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/mcqnm.htm
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| 165. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 05:27 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting xkirstyx: From what I can tell, you don't care about having friends or how people feel or if you offend people...but you do care about what seems to be a one-woman battle to free oppressed Turkish women from their culture and religion, and the only reason they are not complaining and asking to be saved , is because they cannot see what you see. Is that right? |
it doesnt concern only turkish women, it concerns all muslimahs, starting from the western europe ending on indonesia.
OMG, have again offended people? 
i honestly dont care for having friends, friends will come and go, most of them never stay with you all your life. do you remember you friends from a junior school, do you still care for them, although you called them your friends? see, its just a matter of time and circumstances. today they are your friends tomorrow they are gone with wind.
they dont complain because they have no right to complain.
if a young muslimah complains about an arranged marriage and wants another man, she maybe killed (widely and freely executed in the muslim communities even in the western countries). dont pretend you dont know such incidents called "honor killings". so you choose to complain or not.
why dont you move to your husbands country to live in? why do most of european women who married muslim boys dont live in muslim countries? why? |
lol@"they dont complain because they have no right to complain"
Muslim women definitely have the right to complain and divorce their husbands should their husbands impose something on them that is against their right and is out of islam. You should read more about Islam from the source. Some Muslims are too influenced with CULTURE and they confuse it with ISLAM. Some cultural traditions they assume as islamic traditions that's why u see practices that totally contradict the peaceful and fair religion Islam....
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| 166. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 05:35 am |
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ANYWAY BACK TO TOPIC
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| 167. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 05:56 am |
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Quoting zettea: Some Muslims are too influenced with CULTURE and they confuse it with ISLAM. |
I agree that more people should realise the differences between religion and culture. But sometimes it is hard to realise this, especially if believers say all their acts are based upon their beliefs, even if it's murder.
Second point: why do people do not want to see or admit that giving comments, critisize, asking questions about the 'so-called truth' and even attacking is NOT the same as hating? Why do people are so easily insulted if an outstander (or even an insider!) says anything they don't like? If someone says anything about a religion, the books and rules it does not mean s/he says anything about the believer as a person, or is the believer the religion itself? Seems quite arrogant to me.
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| 168. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 06:19 am |
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Quoting Trudy:
Second point: why do people do not want to see or admit that giving comments, critisize, asking questions about the 'so-called truth' and even attacking is NOT the same as hating? Why do people are so easily insulted if an outstander (or even an insider!) says anything they don't like? If someone says anything about a religion, the books and rules it does not mean s/he says anything about the believer as a person, or is the believer the religion itself? Seems quite arrogant to me.
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İt depends on thw way you are putting it.
İf you debat, then no problem,but if you attack,there is a problem.
Attacking means,
-Launch an attack or assault on; begin hostilities or start warfare with
-Take the initiative and go on the offensive
So i dont really understand your question !
Why we feel insulted when being attacking ?!
And you think that is arrogant?!
So,when someone attack you,do you feel happy about it and turn on the other cheek ?!
İ didnt see you do that in your posts !
İ really dont understand your point !
Why do we accept what you dont accept ?!
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| 169. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 06:22 am |
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Quoting CANLI: İ really dont understand your point !
Why do we accept what you dont accept ?! |
Then you must read better what I wrote. I didn't say a personal attack. I said an attack (or questioning, commenting, critisizing) towards a religion. Quite a difference.
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| 170. |
30 Sep 2007 Sun 06:30 am |
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Quoting Trudy: Quoting CANLI: İ really dont understand your point !
Why do we accept what you dont accept ?! |
Then you must read better what I wrote. I didn't say a personal attack. I said an attack (or questioning, commenting, critisizing) towards a religion. Quite a difference. |
You dont understand Trudy,
Our religion is part of us,attacking what i believe is attacking what i do,is attacking me.
İf you said İslam is nonsense,and full of bull sh*t as been said here before,
And i live accourding to its rules,because i believe in it.
Then what would that makes me ?!
A very wise woman ?!
Trudy,
When they criticise Dutch here,you didnt accept it,and defend it .
So you are surprise why we defend what we believe ?!
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