Pfff... let me be "typical Dutch" and straight forward  I think that the point that us women on the forum are trying to make...sometimes when a guy can´t get a girl, it´s not the girl´s fault. It might just be the guy Send some pictures, and we´ll be the judge. But right now, from what you write you are not coming across as the most attractive man ever. You seem a bit... complainy (I know it´s not a word).

 It´s not about being against Turks. It´s about being against illegal people. Research has shown that Turkish businesses in Holland have an extremely high number of illegal workers. These people do not pay taxes, so why would anybody be happy with them? They don´t contribute to the system, but they do make use of it. For example, in Holland hospitals have to help everybody, even somebody without insurance who is here illegally.

Yes, Europe needs "fresh meet". But this is needed to contribute to the expencive social insurance system. Illegal immigrants don´t do this.

I don´t think it should be made difficult for Turkish people to come here. However, I do understand that rules exist, but illegal immigrants ARE a problem. They cost the tax-payers here a lot of money every year. Finding them, putting them in jail, and sending them back to Turkey isn´t free. The visa system should change into a system that more effectively filters between the people who have bad intentions, and the people who are REALLY just tourists or business people.

Anyway, it´s kind of cocky and rude to say "keep going the way you are." How would a flood of illegal immigrants help Holland to keep existing? These people don´t receive the Dutch lessons that the legal immigrants get. They are not a part of Dutch society. They just live in the Turkish neighbourhoods, speaking Turkish all day, eating Turkish food, never going to a Dutch supermarket, afraid to be cought. I don´t see how that is positive for the Dutch people.

People who blame the victims of rape make me sick. No means no, no matter what the men or women is dressed in. (Yes, it can happen to men too)

It´s online, you can´t hear the tone. Dictatorship is just the type of government that Turkey was at the moment. In any case, I don´t want to belittle Ataturk, I just think that people are becoming to sensitive about saying anything slightly negative about Ataturk. The written piece about him in the list of mustaches wasn´t negative, but somehow the other people in the list were enough for "mass media"  to be insulted. It is almost like if the word "Ataturk" is not followed by "was great", that people are insulted.

Is the area of Kusadasi, Bodrum, Marmaris, Antalya big enough for you? And also in the bus to Konya. I have had times where it felt like the whole of Turkey was out for either my money, a visa, or to cheat on their wives/girlfriends. But I also went out of my way to find decent people.

If you don´t feel comfortable in the town you are living in, perhaps it´s time for you to move instead of joining an internet forum just to vent this frustration. Just like I don´t go to certain Turkish sea-side resorts anymore, since the people there make me puke.

By the way... I have to note that there is a certain type of Turkish man that rubs me the wrong way too. I am not attracted to this type at all, and in general they tend to be highly educated so it´s not about visa´s or money. There seems to be a cultural difference between me and them. And when I make clear that I´m not interested in them, they start to blame me, or accuse me of being superficial, saying I´m not attracted to them because of their non-athletic looks. This silly childish blaming makes them even more unattractive! They are coming on too strong, too fast. This might be the Turkish way, the romantic lover, the hunter, but for a girl like me this is irritating. I don´t even want to be friends with such a person. Perhaps part of your problem is a difference in culture. Turkish men can be frightening to people from a more distant and cool culture.

Have you ever thought that perhaps Turks are to sensitive about Ataturk? He was a man, nothing more, nothing less. This is not a list about horrible people. It is a list about dictators who had a mustache. Simple. And Ataturk fits that discription. I think it is silly for the mass media to be angry about this list, like the first article said. I think it´s about time that people in Turkey start treating him like a human being instead of this untouchable god-like figure. I don´t think he was Hitler, I don´t think he was Stalin, but I do think he was a dictator with a mustache. Hm...perhaps it´s not even what I think, but an actual fact. Why does everybody have to treat Ataturk like you can´t state facts about him? For example, it´s a fact that Ataturk was something close to an alcoholic. But when I state this fact inside Turkish borders people get angry with me. Why?

I have a slight problem with this discussion. There is always a pointing finger towards the Schengen countries with their rules. Yes, the process should be more respectfull, and yes, in some cases the rulings about visas are unfair. But I never hear Turkish people talk about the large number of illegal Turks walking around the Schengen countries who came there on a tourist visa and never left. How do you think that should be solved?

The basic problem is that you are looking for an American girl. You shouldn´t be looking for a girl based on her country of origin. You should be looking for a smart girl, a funny girl, a sweet girl, whatever personality fits you best. What difference does it make if she is American or not? If a guy would come to my here in Holland, and I would feel that he only showed me any interest was because he really has this idea of marrying a Dutch girl, I would turn around and run away fast. It´s very unattractive for me to think that a guy was looking for a Dutch girl specifically. Girls are not like dogs, where a specific race is what you should be looking for.

Secondly, perhaps you have this idea in your head now that American girls aren´t nice. This changes your judgement and also the way people react to you. I have met some horrible, HORRIBLE men in Turkey. The lowest of the lowest. Calling them dogs would be an insult to dogs. However, I always tried my best to not judge all Turkish men based on those experiences. That is why later on I did meet decent, friendly, and nice men in Turkey. Perhaps the people in your surroundings at the moment aren´t the best that America has to offer! You wouldn´t want to judge all Turkish men by the Turks that are dancing on tables in the touristic bars, high on drugs, who are only interested in visa´s, money and sex , right?

 But I´m not registered, and I can see it. Perhaps a country-block or something?

Up to 40 documents? I know getting a short visa can be a drag, but 40 documents is crazy. When I helped somebody from Turkey get a short visa from Holland it wasn´t 40. He had to show a contract from his work, a paper showing he had health insurance, a bank statement of his savings, an invitation from his guest where he would stay (so me), a copy of the passport, and a filled in application form. Oh yeah, also a copy of his reservation for a plane ticket. So that´s 7 documents. Still too much for a simple holiday, but not 40. I can´t even think of 40 documents that would have to be handed over for a visa...

Anyway, I think the visa process should become more respectfull towards the visa-applicants. I have noticed that especially the Turkish employees in the Dutch embassy can be so extremely rude! But I don´t think Turkish people should be able to enter Schengen countries without a visa. In the past too many people have gone to Holland on a tourist visa and stayed illegally. These people have basically ruined it for all other Turkish people, and they still do so today.