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Forum Messages Posted by barba_mama

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Thread: Documentary series about Turkey on Dutch tv

291.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 09:54 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Nice documentary. I think I understood about 30% of the Dutch conversations since 
Dutch seems to be very similar to English. 

Turkey is like an onion, there are layers after layers. For a foreigner, it might be a daunting task to come to grasp of the chaotic aspects of this society. Nevertheless, the documentary did a good job squeezing as much diversity as possible into a single episode.

Through the end of the movie there was a dialogue with a young girl about Ataturk. She says Ataturk was a dictator and the host asks whether she would mind saying that with the camera on. The truth is, Ataturk was a dictator. He was a dictator who took over the rule from a monarchy and declared a single party regime at a time of utter chaos, economic and military fatigue. He opened the door for a multi partite democracy. On seeing, having opposition meant a reversal of the civil reforms and a rise of the Islamists he abolished that but always look forward to a favourable climate to initiate a Western style democracy. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same.

 

 

Yeah, I liked that girl at the end. It was sad though that she had such a fight with her family because of her ideas.

 



Thread: Documentary series about Turkey on Dutch tv

292.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 01:11 pm

An interesting documentary series has started yesterday on Dutch tv. It shines a light on different aspects of modern Turkey. It´s made by a Dutch journalist in Turkey, but a lot is spoken in English and Turkish. I guess it´s most interesting for people who understand Dutch, but perhaps other people will enjoy it too.

The first episode is about people´s connection to Ataturk. How do Turkish people live with Ataturk´s heritage? It is very interesting to see people who believe in him almost as a god, to see people who almost hate him, and to see people somewhere in the middle.

There were some interesting notes (in Dutch) about Ataturk´s idea of democracy. The most striking line was "Ataturk´s idea of democracy meant forming your own opinion, and being able to question and doubt everything. Perhaps even Ataturks own ideas."

 

http://beta.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/1085763-de-vader-van-de-turken#

(the weird blond guy in the beginning is a reklam)

Tulip and vineyards liked this message


Thread: Marriage customs: engagement when bridegroom is not present

293.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 01:04 pm

Hm, I guess technically it must be possible, since an engagement isn´t very official. It´s just saying to your family and friends "hands off this one, he/she is mine!" But I guess the whole "hands off" thing is rather strange since the person in question won´t be there. I wouldn´t get engaged without the person being there. In any case, in the army you have free days. Why wouldn´t you plan an engagement during those free days?



Thread: Pamuk to pay compensation for Armenian, Kurdish remarks

294.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 12:10 pm

 

Quoting si++

His statement is imcomplete in many ways and even incorrect.

1. Nobody knows how many Armenians died (not necessarrily killed). His number is wrong and not based on something but just an utterence.

2. Speaking of Kurds/Armenians being killed, Turks also were killed, so where is his number for that?

3. As for 30,000 Kurds, many of them were killed by PKK. He sounds like he puts all the blame on Turks for that.

 

And yes that statement helped him being honoured with Nobel price. Swear at your people, seem like a nice guy to the Nobel committe and get the price. Very cheap you traitor!

Quoting tunci

The compensation suit stemmed from an interview with the Swiss newspaper Tages Anzeiger in 2005 when Pamuk said “30,000 Kurds and a million Armenians were killed” in Turkey. Turkey denies that Armenians were systematically killed between 1915 and 1923, saying both sides suffered losses in internecine fighting during the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.

 

 

That is just crazy. You can sue people for this? For not mentionig ALL people who died? When I talk about World War 2 I mention the dead Jews a lot. So all gypsies should sue me because I don´t mentoin they died too? What about the Russians, they lost the most people, so they should also sue me when I forget to mentoin them. That he didn´t mentoin Turkish people dying is a flawed logic for getting money from this man. It is a disgrace, and only money-hungry people would sue somebody in this way.

 

Secondly, he gave that interview as himself, not as an historical expert. If you ask me how many Jews died during World War 2 I might give you a wrong number as well. Or ask me how many Dutch people died through conflict throughout recent years... I don´t know... 1000? If that´s too much should some random person sue me as well?

 

Turks are too sensitive about this Armenian issue, and thus their logical judgement is clouded. For a normal random person this is okay. You can think what you want. But for a court to not follow freedom of speech, facts, and see that somebody who sues another person should have actually SUFFERED from that other person, is frightening. Where is Turkey going to... For you to say "he sounds like he puts the blame on Turks" is fine, but this is not a legally sound reason to make somebody pay damages.

 

And perhaps you should pick up a Pamuk book and read it, and figure out why he won it. The Turkish people care a LOT more about the whole Armenian thing than the Nobel commission does.

Aida krishan, Daydreamer and thehandsom liked this message


Thread: Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book

295.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 11:53 am

I´m not American, so I can´t be held responsible for any actions of George W. Bush. And yes, I was stunned about the patriot act as well. Are you using the mistakes others make (jihad on Rushdi, all failures of Bush jr.) as an excuse for the Turkish government to mess up? Two wrongs don´t make a right.

Oh, and since I´m not American me buying fertilizer also doesn´t flag anything. The fertilizer thing in America is for large quantities by the way. Enough to build a bomb...  And when this flag appears, it doesn´t mean that the government raids a farmer´s house or something. They just monitor other purchases somebody makes, to see if they are following a checklist of bomb-ingredients. You know bombs... things that can actually kill people. How was this unpublished book going to blow up and kill people? The only thing the police was trying to "save" through this raid was the Turkish government. And the role of a democratic government is NOT to protect itself, but to protect the CITIZENS of the country.



Edited (3/28/2011) by barba_mama



Thread: Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book

296.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 03:19 pm

 

Quoting stumpy

If that is the case then why was their a price put on Ahmend Salman Rushdi´s head then when he wrote the Satanic Verses in 1988?  It is ok to put a price on a novelist´s head and ask that he be killed for a novel he wrote and force him into hiding but it is not ok to raid a publishing house?

There is a thin line between freedom of the press which is not the same as freedom of speech, there are fundamenlte diffrences and one´s freedom has it´s limits and boundries.  When you´re freedom of speech, expression and thinking starts to incroche on the freedom of your fellow man than it is no longer considered freedom because you start imposing your freedom on the freedom of others. 

The Universal Decleration of Human Rights states: "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers"

And the government of each contry has the right to look into what may be detremental to the national interests.

It is easy to judge what is right or wrong when it comes to the actions of the authoraties but if you or anyone of us would be put in the shoes of the authoraties we might take the same decisions they have taken or will take.

 

Why are you saying this like I am behind the jihad on Rushdi? Rushdi´s book wasn´t that bad actually. People might not agree with what he wrote, but he had every right to write it. It makes no sense for you to use this in your argument against me. I am against the whole kill Rushdi thing as well.

 

If the Turkish government wants to be a democratic one, they need to let people criticise that government. Raiding a printing house because they might, possibly, not even sure, but perhaps print something that critiques the government in the future, is a sign of a dictatorship. The Turkish police have illegally listened to the private conversation of the publicist and his wife. And what makes this book so wrong? Does it tell people to kill others, does it call for violence? It has critique on the government, and some of it might be a lie, some of it might be true. I have NO idea, since the writer could not even THINK about publishing it without the Turkish police arresting him. I am sure that if I was in the authorities position, I would not raid that publishing house. I would spend my time fighting actual terrorists, or fight the corruption that is present in the government.

 

Turkey is making a very bad impression on the world by the doubtfull treatment of any writer or journalist who does not agree with the government.



Thread: Was Serbia yet another victim?

297.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 01:16 am

There are no winners in war, only victims.

slavica liked this message


Thread: Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book

298.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 01:14 am

 

Quoting stumpy

There is freedom of the press, but there´s no freedom to lie.

  

Freedom of press is a basic premise of democracy. You can´t raid a publishing house on the assumption that somebody might lie in the future. You can´t arrest people for putting their ideas on a computer, and if they finally publish something that you think is a lie, you at least WAIT until it´s published and than sue that person in a legal way.

vineyards liked this message


Thread: Evliya Çelebi’s legacy lives on four centuries later

299.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 20 Mar 2011 Sun 02:01 pm

...never heard of him! {#emotions_dlg.eeek} Seems I need to do some digging in the local library.



Thread: Lybia and the no-fly zone

300.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 20 Mar 2011 Sun 02:00 pm

So if a country has oil we should all just let its inhabitants be killed by a mass murdering psychotic dictator? Because that is what Kaddafi is, no way around it. I´m sure that intervening countries have more than one reason to support a no fly zone. One of them can simply be, Libya is very very close to "the West". Fighting and revolts is something that spreads, as we have seen in the news recently in the Middle Eastern region. One of them can also be wanting to have a stable oil supply. So, you save foreign people from being killed by their dictator while also providing your own people with a steady energy supply. Although I highly doubt that a no fly zone will make any difference with oil supplies. Products are still entering Libya, and are also still getting out of Libya.

 

You know what I wonder, where are the "the West is against Islam" conspiracies now? Shouldn´t "the Western Christians" just let those "Islamic Middle Easterners" kill eachother? Damned if you don´t, damned if you do. Whatever the West does in this situation, there is always somebody who thinks it´s wrong.

bydand liked this message


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