´Curse

I ask from God that there will be no smile on your face.

May pain and sorrow be the partners of your heart.

May your ego be left without peace

If you love anyone else but me.

May no one miss you, search for you or ask for you.

May your pain continue and your suffering never end.

May your broken heart never find cure

If you love anyone else but me.

May you be left without love and tenderness.

May your family and friends abandon you.

May you be the only one to be turned from paradise.

If you love anyone else but me.´

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I took quite free hands. Hope it´s correct.

Nice. I like the etymological dictionary link. I will probably be playing with it later.

Now I am about to take off the plug from the wall. I have a flight to catch in the afternoon via Istanbul to Cairo. My intention is to stay there for a few months. I will probably be offline for some while until I get a connection to the house. But I will keep on studying Turkish. Thanks for everything, si++ and all the others. I feel worse about leaving the site than leaving my home. I will be back soon inşallah.

It doesn´t matter, si++. It was good brain excercise to try to figure out what you might have ment. Besides, I found this way to check the origin of a common word which I know. I also understood one thing which is so simple that it is embarassing even to say it: how could a Turk who doesn´t speak Arabic know that in Egypt they call a room oda? This brought into light the angle error that I had when I first wrote the question: because I know some broken Turkish and further more some broken street Arabic I see the common vocabulary with different eyes and wonder things that a native speaker of each language wouldn´t give a thought.

But I found an interesting list here:

http://baheyeldin.com/linguistics/turkish-words-borrowed-in-modern-arabic.html.

There are obvious mistakes in it. Some of the words have gone to the other direction which can be checked even in your dictionary link. But it shows some interesting features. The list is short. Probably it is not complete but it´s still conspiciously short. It seems that Turks have been much more open to foreign influence at least what comes to language. The -ci suffix which produces names of professions seems to have been adapted into Arabic and been very productive later on. Names of military ranks are still Turkish, at least in colloquial language.

An interesting feature are the Arabic proper names which have first been borrowed into Turkish and then returned back into Arabic in their Turkish outfits. Maybe the journey they made gave them extra prestige in the speakers´ ears.

deli, your posts always cheer me up. I never start a translation task if you are online because I know you do it better. Maybe it was bad humour, that´s all.

I´m sorry I´m so simple but I can´t figure out how I could find tr > ar loanwords in a Turkish etymological dictionary. Of course I don´t understand all those marks and abbreviations but if I wanted to know the origin of an Arabic word shouldn´t I look for it in an Arabic dictionary instead? (I am not after detailed information, I was looking for an easier way.)

I know that hanım is a Turkish word used in some Arab dialects. Ar. is not mentioned at all in the Nişanyan hanım article. Maybe this is a prove of its Turkish origin in Arabic. If it´s not taken from Arabic it must have been given there, isn´t it?

Then I tried abla which in Egyptian means ´nanny´ or ´big sister´. I didn´t know the origin, but Arabic was not mentioned. Is this another hit?

So you mean if I know a common word I can check it this way...but if I make the search with Dil:Ar doesn´t it exactly bring me the 4075 words which can´t be borrowed tr > ar because they are ar > tr?

Don´t overestimate me, si++.

The Fas matter is clear. Moroccans were the fez a lot until today.

Does anyone know a list of Turkish loanwords in Arabic? I have seen something in the net but I wasn´t convinced.

Why on Earth do you call Morocco Fas? In every language I know it´s Morocco or Maghreb or something similar which refer to ´sunset, west´.

When there is a special question word (ne, nerede, kim, niye etc.) in the sentence mi is not needed in questions. Typically a mi-question takes ´yes´ or ´no´ for its answer

gir|eme|yebil|ir = stem + impotential + potential + aorist sg. 3rd

´It may be that he cannot enter.´ (My Guess)

Come on, si++, (I guess) I told that many times. I remember you once told that you are not a linguist but certainly there is a small one living inside of you.

I think learning a language happens in steps. Small explosions and breakthroughs happen now and then even though most of the time you feel like there is no development at all. I don´t quite swallow your opinion that Turkish is easier than other languages. Actually it´s impossible to compare because something you learned when you were a child (and I don´t mean mother tongue) of course made a deeper effect in your brain. Afterwards you just have to use whatever ready schemes you have in your head.

At the moment I think (or wish) that Turkish is really hard in the beginning but once you get accustomed to Turkish sentence structure you can make progress faster.

People often tell stories about wives who have learned a foreign language from their husbands. Sure it works but I think they often learn it from their children (if they are raised up bilingual). I have seen it many times. This is a chance for the young girls here: fluent Turkish in five years without sweat and tears.

When you start to study a new thing you bring your whole history with you. Everybody has advantages and obstacles. My biggest advantage, I think, is my education (I am a linguist). The biggest difficulty for me is that I have no real connection to Turkey.

But more than this I believe in the right attitude. You have to be humble, you need discipline. For me it´s important to study every day, otherwise the camel will run away. You can´t be too proud to ask, too proud to make mistakes. Be the official dummy of the site, it doesn´t matter when deep inside you know you are making progress. If someone is willing to advice you it´s your chance and you shouldn´t let it go.

You need to be interested. If one day you don´t feel like practicing you have to fool yourself you do. It´s not so difficult.

The question was how long it takes to come to the sentence level. I was studying the basic greetings, numbers and case endings last summer. At some point I forced my way through to simple sentences. It was hopeless in the beginning and owe everything to this site and certain teachers here whose patience I have tested to the limit.

Now I can read simple texts (with considerable difficulty), create small sentences. I don´t have problems with ortography any more.  -  But, of course, I can´t speak.

I like your question, Dimples, and I would like to hear more stories like this.