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Forum Messages Posted by ikicihan

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Thread: ....the problem is that...

491.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 26 Dec 2012 Wed 05:53 pm

I dont know much about official statistics. but i have witnessed something in real life.

My grandfather, who died about 10 years ago, was a literate person. According to my mom when she was a child, my grandfather had some thick story books and he had used to read it to family members and all family members had listened to these stories joyfully (some kind of oral literature). The interesting part is all these books were written in old alphabet (not latin alphabet but still turkish). He could read the the old writings faster than new ones. He could also read latin alphabet writings slowly. As you guess he was educated in his village only before language and alphabet revolutions, before all local traditional schools were banned according to the law tevhid-i tedrisat.

At the same time my father from the same village goes to primary school first time at the age of 12! Because in the same village, there was no primary school before. When the first school build in 1960s all children under 15 goes to school very first time and get literate. That is not their fault...

gokuyum liked this message


Thread: ....the problem is that...

492.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 06:17 pm

I am waiting for USA or England to reform english, purifying english from the french, german and dutch originated words! Just imagine it! Say goodbye to richest vocabulary language!

Writing system reforms are whole different subject. We are not started to discuss it yet. Writing system doesnt change language as long as you use the same words. It doesnt matter how you write, in latin or cyrillic, in simplified chinese or traditional chinese...



Thread: Nine Is Enough

493.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 04:15 pm

According to Dutch sociologist Abram de Swaan, a sociological classification of languages based on large scale social role for their speakers :

  • Supercentral languages: very widely spoken languages that serve as connectors between speakers of central languages; according to de Swaan, there are twelve of these: Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Hindi, Japanese, Malay, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish and Swahili;
  • Central languages: widely spoken languages
  • Peripheral languages: the rest – languages that not many people consider worth learning except to improve one´s own communication faculties.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_language_system



Thread: ....the problem is that...

494.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 02:48 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

What exactly is your language ?


Of course turkish, all other languages are in foreign language category for me.

 

Anyway, let me add something for new produced words.

 

Acceptable, good ones:

Produced with a valid root and valid suffix, expressing true meaning of the suffix.
I call these as produced words. As long as they are replaced with new foreign words, they are useful and recommended to use. Replacing them with (a few century) old common words is bad idea, destroys vocabulary.

Non acceptable, bad ones:
Produced with a made-up root and/or made-up suffix; or produced with a valid root and suffix but expressing a made-up meaning of the suffix.
I call these made-up words as made-up or mutated words. Never ever use them if you dont have to. Protect beautiful turkish, dont pollute it with mutated words.



Edited (12/24/2012) by ikicihan



Thread: ....the problem is that...

495.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 08:48 am

 

Quoting vona

 

İkicihan, let me refresh your memory a bit:

First you said “sorun is made up,strange and rootless word” (nr 3) , secondly, after reading gokuyum´s post (nr 5) changed your opinion and said, “sor- root´s valid but the suffix is made up” (nr 6), thirdly, as you had no logical answer to my post (nr 11), you just said “it´s a long and old discussion” (nr 12), and finaly you said you were “stopping yourself not to start an endless discussion with an unknown person” (nr 15)

Your Turkish grammar is weak . Go and reread my post (nr 11) it will help you improving your grammar skills.

By the way, I knew from the first post of yours to the thread that your approach is political but not linguistic, and I tried to make it turn into a grammatical discussion thinking that maybe it would help the learners, and I hope it did.  

Oh! and before I forget it.. you call me "unknown person."  Do all you know each other personally and this is how you treat the new members?  

 

 

i called you an unknown person because before i said this i took a quick look to your profile and got zero information, like where you are from, why you are here, etc.  your nickname doesnt give me a clue, too. No offence...

Luckily TDK (Turkish language association) slowed down or stopped for the last 10-15 years mutating my language. But before that they caused great harm to my language. That is why i am so angry with them.

---

For new foreign words, it is acceptable and recommended to produce Turkish equivalent words with a valid root and suffix. I support this process by TDK or by any expert.

I am strongly against to produce made-up roots and suffixes, and to produce new words with these roots and suffixes.

I am strongly against to change hundreds of years old words known by most people with newly produced ones. This process is purely language crime.

If a new foreign word came into my language, that is not a bad thing, it makes my language richer. You can offer Turkish equivalent words in the beginning but if you are too late, no need to change it. You can call "radio" as radyo, "television" as televizyon, no problem.

The worst of all, changing more than one thousand years old words with newly produced words. TDK did it with state force in the past by using education system.

There are thousands but here is only one example:
"kelime" (word), arabic originated (from kalimah i think.)
TDK trying to change it with "sözcük".

"Sözcük" is Turkish from the root and from the suffix.
But why there is a need to change it?
Will this process make Turkish more beautiful or more rich?
or will this process cut ties with future and past and cause corruption and confusion?
In the future, a student goes to library, take a book from a shelf and see the word "kelime" and thinks what it means??? This already happened for many words.

"kelime" is in my language for more than one thousand years. if we go far back of its origin we may end up in ancient hebrew, aramaic, arabic. that is absolutely not a rootless word. If you ask me if it is Turkish or not, i say it is Turkish regardless of its origin. and there is NO NEED to change it.

 

 



Edited (12/24/2012) by ikicihan [missing part added]



Thread: Paranormal Activity in Turkey - 23 Dec. 2012

496.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 09:06 pm

Ne Hoca, ne vali ne de mütfü çözebildi

http://gundem.milliyet.com.tr/ne-hoca-ne-vali-ne-de-mutfu-cozebildi/gundem/gundemdetay/23.12.2012/1645769/default.htm

Siirt´te esrarengiz olay

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/805734-siirtte-esrarengiz-olay



Thread: ....the problem is that...

497.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 04:16 pm

i answered vona, sorry about confusion. when i started to write, there was no new answer.



Thread: ....the problem is that...

498.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 03:49 pm

I have pages of answers for you but i am stopping myself not to start an endless discussion with an unknown person. Instead of this i forward you to language experts (of course not from so called "Türk Dil Kurumu") I dont understand why you are killing (or at least trying to kill ) some words and producing new ones. Actually i know but as i said before i dont want to start an endless discussion.

Try to read these books and get more good info. There are so many books about this subject but i selected two good ones.

Türkçemiz ve Uydurmacılık
by
Prof. Dr. Faruk Kadri Timurtaş

Osmanlıca, Türkçe, Uydurmaca
by
Peyami Safa

 

(later edit: this reply goes to 23 Dec 2012 Sun 06:48 am)



Edited (12/23/2012) by ikicihan
Edited (12/23/2012) by ikicihan [mistyping]

nevbahar liked this message


Thread: ....the problem is that...

499.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 06:30 am

it is a long and old discussion. no need to restart it. we are fighting over it more than 80 years. i leave this complicated subject to fair language specialists. (not to the state forced ideologic Turkish language association workers.)

some roots and suffixes may remain from ancient past but we use and prefer living active ones. if there is at least one word that everone knows, at the same time if someone trying to change it with an unknown produced word, i ask myself why there is a need for this, why dont you just leave the language on its natural way, "su akar yatağını bulur." what happened happened in the past, the result is 1 to 10 percent corruption. "zararın neresinden dönsek kârdır."

nevbahar liked this message


Thread: just for fun...

500.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 12:00 am

nemanjasrb liked this message


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