Turkish Poetry and Literature |
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EROTIZMA-CAN YÜCEL
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| 340. |
10 Mar 2008 Mon 09:30 pm |
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Quoting Roswitha: Teaschip, who is cuddling with him? |
I plead the fifth on this one... 
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| 341. |
10 Mar 2008 Mon 09:34 pm |
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an uninvited cat thehandsome did not expect
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| 342. |
10 Mar 2008 Mon 10:17 pm |
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i am not sure who he is cuddling with but who ever it is thank goodness its the same 'person' as in the picture next to them so at least he is not a dudu!!
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| 343. |
10 Mar 2008 Mon 10:22 pm |
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Oh,what a revelation!
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| 344. |
10 Mar 2008 Mon 10:25 pm |
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I know i am sure he will also be shocked!  lol
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| 345. |
11 Mar 2008 Tue 09:09 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: So, in the same manner, you may want to argue that people from Germany are bad as they are all Nazists. The memory of WW II is still alive in memory, but nobody sane would pass judgements on contemporary Germany basing on what happened over 60 years ago. |
That is not what I said, I said those who hold ideas are still alive and exerting their influence. Maybe you have noticed the many Neo Nazi groups that proliferate today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
Quoting Daydreamer: I have never intended to belittle or demean any religion. I think they do it themselves by exploiting and abusing their followers. But I do agree - everyone has the right to choose their own religion. Just as it is my right to comment on certain social issues that derive from religious norms. If somebody wishes to become a Satanist, it is his/her choice. But if his religion permits to kill somebody, it is my right or even responsibility to express my disagreement. If Catholics decide that religion should be taught at schools - protesting against it has nothing to do with demeaning this religion, it is simply a personal opinion. If Muslims treat women in a manner I disagree with, stating it does not make me belittle Islam, does it? |
It's the assumption that treating women badly is a part of the Islamic religion that I object to. It is a popular myth that is not supported by Islam. While it is true in some Islamic countries women are not treated well, but it is not because of Islam, it is in spite of Islam. which does not condone maltreatment ot women. Actually in Islam women have many more rights than in other mainstream religions.
Most do not really understand the deeper principles of many religions as they only take the superficial view of them. In fact many people have no interest in religion at all.
You may not read this, it give you another view and be informative if you did. I respect this woman a great deal. She gives some wise, educated and informed insite into the situation of women in Islamic societies today.
http://www.religiousconsultation.org/hassan2.htm#six
Quoting Daydreamer: I'm not Irish, I'm a Polish immigrant to Ireland. I have no idea what it has been here like before. But I assure you, no religious bullying or hate is present. Catholics, Protestants and other religions co-exist peacefully. |
I realize you are not Irish. I guess you are in lower Ireland and unaware of what is happening in Northern Ireland?
"Between 1966 and 1999 a total of 3,636 people were killed and 36,000 injured as the conflict spread beyond Northern Ireland's borders onto the British mainland and elsewhere. Most of the victims were innocent civilians. "
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/n.ireland/overview.html
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ira.htm
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| 346. |
12 Mar 2008 Wed 11:21 am |
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Quoting alameda:
That is not what I said, I said those who hold ideas are still alive and exerting their influence. Maybe you have noticed the many Neo Nazi groups that proliferate today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism |
I spent most of my youth with those Neo-Nazists. Trust me, they are just thugs who have little knowledge of why they're doing it. Media exaggerates their image a great deal. There are this kind of people who found a reason to justify their violence. That's all. However, they aren't even half as lethal as suicide bombers who claim to be Muslims. So I find your comparison not really in place. As for the witchcraft, let me quote you:
Quote: Witchcraft persecutions ended 60 years ago ignores the fact that is still in LIVING memory. IOW those who lived through that are still alive and making their contribution to world events, based on their experience. .....and they have been doing so for the last 60 years. |
I've already told you that witchcraft persecutions ended over 100 years ago. Those incidents you point to are just singled out actions of villagers and have nothing to do with the real witch hunt. If you want, you may find hundreds of 'I was raped by a werewolf' or 'Elvis lives' kinds of stories. There is a difference between a public lynch and an organized, institutionalised with hunt. Do understand it.
Quote: It's the assumption that treating women badly is a part of the Islamic religion that I object to. It is a popular myth that is not supported by Islam. While it is true in some Islamic countries women are not treated well, but it is not because of Islam, it is in spite of Islam. which does not condone maltreatment ot women. Actually in Islam women have many more rights than in other mainstream religions. |
Canli has already explained this one and I have commented saying that it is exactly what I hold against Islam - that it does nothing to help those women. Other religions may grant less rights to women but women in non-Muslim states have more rights. Islam might be granting more rights to women - but women in Islamic countries have less rights. We all agreed on this one. I have no idea what Quran advises, my only sources are what I read. I have no reasons not to believe Canli about what she said. But I have also read people who gave sources justifying beating women. I am not arguing theological grounds but social ones.
Quote: Most do not really understand the deeper principles of many religions as they only take the superficial view of them. In fact many people have no interest in religion at all. |
Exactly! But try and tell a suicide bomber that he misses the point of his religion. Tell it to the father that kills his raped daughter. If Christians miss the point of their religion, they stop going to church, if Muslims miss the point - they kill. That's the difference I was talking about.
Quote: I realize you are not Irish. I guess you are in lower Ireland and unaware of what is happening in Northern Ireland? |
Actually I am 15km away from the border with Northern Ireland (in ULster) so right where the clash should be if there was any. IRA was not mainly about religion. I'm sure you know that the Brits were occupying Ireland for 800 years. IRA is not a means of promoting Catholicism, it is a group fighting for Irish independence from Britain. When Ireland got divided into UK-governed part and independent one, many people didn't like it as they thought the whole island should be free. It's true that Brits are mainly protestant and the Irish mainly Catholic, but it wasn't a religious war. It was a fight for freedom.
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| 347. |
13 Mar 2008 Thu 01:09 am |
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I have uploaded the poem. I combined the translations of thehandsom and vineyards according to own thoughts. Hope you are content with the result.
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| 348. |
15 Mar 2008 Sat 06:23 am |
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I don't know what Thehandsome thinks but I certainly do not appreciate the poem collage combining his and my versions. Anything concerning poetry is highly personal and emotional, it is not something you can mix with others to produce a better version. I would say, it resembles a letter sent to a beloved person. It is highly private in essence but equally universal in scope. The reader gets only what is available to him/her, the final product. He/she is not expected to get involved in the making of it.
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| 349. |
15 Mar 2008 Sat 02:22 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: I don't know what Thehandsome thinks but I certainly do not appreciate the poem collage combining his and my versions. Anything concerning poetry is highly personal and emotional, it is not something you can mix with others to produce a better version. I would say, it resembles a letter sent to a beloved person. It is highly private in essence but equally universal in scope. The reader gets only what is available to him/her, the final product. He/she is not expected to get involved in the making of it. |
I agree.
"ear hole" - I think the two translations got "murdered". I'm sure she meant well but perhaps she should have shown you her work first.
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| 350. |
15 Mar 2008 Sat 06:38 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: I don't know what Thehandsome thinks but I certainly do not appreciate the poem collage combining his and my versions. Anything concerning poetry is highly personal and emotional, it is not something you can mix with others to produce a better version. I would say, it resembles a letter sent to a beloved person. It is highly private in essence but equally universal in scope. The reader gets only what is available to him/her, the final product. He/she is not expected to get involved in the making of it. |
When Deli_kızın asked for your opinion on oploading your both translation into the poems section, I was actually expecting she would just add both of them side to side...
I didn't like the result, as both are very different translations, different in style, in language, in feeling, in perception and understanding... I saw them both as individual new poems... now they are torn apart... they don't combine...
I would just like to see the poem there with your both translations, enterely.
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