These words actually not his words, these are the words of so-called hadith writers who had done more harm to Islam rather than van Gogh or Salman Rushdie. And this clearly shows how he brainwashed...

Ok, let´s just disagree and celebrate our differences.

Although maybe we agree more than you´d like to admit. I don´t know. I think you do see the world differently than me. You seem to have a very esoteric view of Islam, very idealistic. Good for you. I´m not so optimistic and idealistic about it (as I´m not about any religion, Christian abortion clinic bombers are no more "true" Christians according to the definition of those who get upset about Christianity being criticised then the female suicide bomber who killed 40 people just today is a "true" Muslim according to your definition). My view of it is much more gloomy. And I think it´s important not to ignore the impact of religion on how people act, whether you agree with it or not. And yes, sharia is part of Islam, as hadiths are part of Islam. Separating the two is like saying that Catholicism is just the Bible, but no traditions. It all is a part of the package. You can ignore it if you want to, and good for you, I´m happy you can cherry pick what parts of Islam appear to you as a good and moral person, and you can reject the bad stuff. I wish more people did the same.

And last comment, the Muslims I interact with have not shared with me the same perceptions as your family has voiced. Maybe it´s different environment. What I see is they lead normal lives, the tolerance is probably better where I live than where you do - the women can go to schools and work with the hajib if they want to for example, nobody cares. Of course there are bigots everywhere, so I´m sure there are those who will be victims of prejudice.

Sometimes however it´s also a case of "victim" mentality (I´m not saying that´s the case with your family at all, don´t get me wrong here). Many times you will hear minority members accuse people of being racist or prejudiced when they are being critical of whatever it is those members are doing wrong. One time some African American guy on a bus accused me of being a racist because my boyfriend at the time wasn´t black.

Anyway, I think we´ve exhausted the arguments here. I think we both like to have the last word, so I´m going to let you have yours and let´s move on to something more interesting. (And I need to get back to bloody -miþ participle lol). 

Last thing i want to say about this. This shows you dont know Islam well. Actually it is clear in the Quran that the real source of Din is just the Great Reading. As for the hadiths till now approximately 800.000 hadith recited and %90 of them rejected.  And today we also see the realiable ones so guess how are those rejecteds?  Many of them are the claimed words of Muhammed so can only  be verified using Kuran. At the time of prophet writing hadiths are strictly forbidden and all of these written nearly 2 centuries after him. Today we cant even know the history just a century ago except the main events with all possibilites we have. Now you can guess how those hadiths are reliable. By the way i just not pick the ones who suits my interest, i just follow the Quran which should all muslims do rather than hadiths or traditions. And im not the only one like this there are many people who thinks the same as me.

You sound as if you believe suicide attacks were invented by Muslims...when the facts are very different.

The Tamil Tigers are notorious for their well-developed militia cadre, atrocities against Muslim and Sinhalese civilians, and high profile attacks, such as the assassination of several high ranking Sri Lankan politicians, and the former Prime Minister of India Rajiv Gandhi. They also have the distinction of introducing suicide bombings as a tactic, and have carried out more suicide bombings than Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and al-Qaeda combined.The LTTE have repeatedly been accused of recruiting child soldiers. The LTTE are the only rebel organization with aircraft.

The fact of the matter is suicide attacks have been going on for a very long time. The first documented one was when Samson brought the temple down on himself and the Philistines...killing everyone......

""Samson said, ´Let me die with the Philistines!´ Down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more as he died than while he lived." (Judges 16:3."

They are one of the results of asymetric warfare....Suicide attack

Melek, you won´t convince them so don´t bother. According to some members here, the people who call themselves Muslim and claim to live by the word of Quran when they blow themselves up together with innocent people around are not Muslim, neither are those who commit honour killings and those who treat women like dirt. But secular states with all kinds of religions in their armies, legal system and churches next to synagogues and mosques are Christian.

 It´s not that they aren´t Muslim, it´s that they are ignorant Muslims who do not know, and consequently, follow their religion.

As for states who claim to be secular, if we analyse them carefully, we see it´s a very thin veneer. I certainly do not think those who call themselves Christian qualify for that name. They do not really follow the teachings of Jesus as.  Begining with Constantine, many of the basic precepts of Christianity were ignored.  The war between the Unitarians and Trinitarians began, as did the various inquisitions that followed.

Dear Alameda,

The "invention of the West" refers to the term "hi-jacked name Islam" that was used in a previous post I responded to. Nowhere do I express my opinion re who "invented" suicide attacks. If anything, I use the exaples to illustrate a different point.

So thank you for your lecture, however misplaced. And if I want to get more information on that or any topic, I surely do know how to do my own research, after all I do have a graduate degree, obtaining which did involve getting skilled in conducting research (and Wikipedia has never been even remotely acceptable as a reliable source in any serious research, just FYI). 

So thanks, but no thanks.

If you however meant your post to enlighten other members here, well, I´m glad I could provide you with a platform to do so.

Cheers.

Melek74

I am sorry to dissapoint you, my posts are not intended for your eyes only. At anytime there are many here who read, but do not post.

As for my use of wikipedia, it does have a list of resources, and is actually an excellent source, even though it is not as elitist as some may prefer.

As for your (or anyone´s) "education", it should show in the substance of the comments. If one has to tell us about it, maybe it´s not as valid as one may believe. I´ve met way too many "educated (...substitute programmed) fools.

By saying "You sound as if you believe suicide attacks were invented by Muslims...when the facts are very different." you did indicate that you were correcting my alleged misperception of the origin of suicide attacks. So pardon me. Maybe you need to be more mindful of how you come across.

I referenced my education only to point out that I do possess the skill of researching. You´re not the only one on this website that knows how to "google" information. So your comment was totally uncalled for. Maybe if I start posting info copied from random websites and multiple links to them, then my comments will have enough substance for you. I´ve met plenty of "fools" as well, who can´t come up with an original thought themselves, by the way.

If honor killings, blowing themselves to kill innocents without a cause is not related to Islam, then what should we say?

But the real thing is you dont want to see who are the real terrorits, i think just because those are your people not a religous thing . Just want to give an example form past, 20.000 women and chidren were murdered according to testimony of US perpetrators by the operation phoenix in Vietnam(while Vietnamese say the number of murdered is more than 40.00. These people were doctors, lawyers, villagers, teachers etc, just murdered to instill fear in the enemy. These are the real terrorist invaders just now they implementing this in Iraq or in Gaza. These are examples of civilized west

 Ok, we ´the west´ are the wolf and you ´the muslims´ the innocent lambs. Satisfied now?