Or western paranoia with turkish paranoia.

I wont quote any of you coz mot of you in same idea.

first of all, do not mix apple and pear.

insulting, criticizing are different things. if I call someone here as "whore", u cant say this is "freedom of speech". of course she can say Im not whore Im a good girl but there will always be a question mark on minds.

I have seen many comments like this on this site. one of members keep doing this all the time.  once about Ataturk some ppl wrote insulting things like "dictator, liar". u can think this is freedom of speech but this post leave in the shade what Ataturk did for this country and what did he chage and in which circumstances. and again I posted something about turkey, turkish educational system, again hge came and insulted that kind of events. I understand if someone believes that somethings are  not important and must be changed but we mustnt forget that still most of ppl respects and likes these.

of course, for EU membership Turkey is doing some regulations in law. There will be many changes in life but our culture will continue. We will never accuse someone who has never judged coz of this, being a murderer or faschist after he died. coz it s really bad thing to accuse someone who is lont alive, he will have no chance to defend himself. if he is a really good person and innocent we will leave a question mark on minds.

yes here is the our difference!

u cant see the things from our side.

maybe u compare with ur national anthem.

it s not just a song for turkish ppl. it s a holy poem which tells all martyr who died for homeland.

maybe u dont feel anything when u hear turkish national anthem but u dont know how we feel when we listen to it.

  lets laugh together canim

tell me more about western paranoia. it doesnt sound familiar to me.

 I do not understand your reasoning DD in the case of any national anthem of any country,not only Turkey.Comparing it to kokorec sounds very parochial,I wonder how would you react if somebody compared our anthem to "kaszanka´?

Yes ,up to a point  I agree,ppl may like or not it but IT DOES NOT MEAN that anybody is at liberty to mock at words or  a tune.Even anarchists do not...And despite one´s likness or lack of it the respect should be kept.The thing that this site lacks.

If a song or a poem was chosen to represent the nation there must have been a valid reason for which this song or poem was placed over others.VALID for the nation ,which means  that any  public mockery and insults at the anthem  are targeted at its people.

I think that some people here take others´ personal opinions as absolute facts, and maybe that´s why they find them insulting.. If someone called Ataturk a liar, maybe that person explained that Ataturk lied about something.. Ataturk being a dictator is a fact actually - he did impose his rule and squandered opposition.. although Ataturk is still a hero and an absolute genius, his dictatorship was not one of those megalomanic ones like others in history, who just wanted power.

Janissary, I think you are simply exaggerating that we allow insults here, we actually do not, it´s just criticism that you take as an insult. like you did in the case of the thread about the helicopter crash!

But anyway... I think that maybe some people should accept the fact that people´s opinons differ.. I don´t agree with many people here on many topics, but I don´t say that they don´t have the right to have their opinions or say them here..

I do disagree completely with DD about the national anthem thing. The anthem is the nation´s history.. maybe it is (like in case of Poland) people having fought my freedom, so that now I can take it for granted. It´s not a matter of "either you like it or not", it´s a matter of "you either are proud of your nation´s history, or not", but that has to be phrased differently.. I think.

 And I disagree with this. Not because of the Turkish (or Polish) anthem - I don´t think I´ve heard them but because anthems are not always chosen by people from now. I can only say about mine. Written somewhere in the 1600´s with a text that says ´of German blood´ and ´obeying the King of Spain´ (who THEN ruled my country. Well, I AM proud of my country (and its history) most of the times but I don´t feel any bonds with German blood or the Spanish King. If people want to critisize that or mock about it: be my guest.  

anthem is an anthem simply. just a song, not a history. why cant it get criticised ?

lalalala  lalala

 Exactly my idea.

 because you both do not come from the country whose freedom was gained by blood shed  on the battlefields and our values simply differ but even your origin does not give you the right to mock at other countries anthems.Enjoy mocking at yours if you feel the need .

Yeah, that is true...