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Great day for Turkey and Turkish democracy!!
(71 Messages in 8 pages - View all)
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40.       slavica
814 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 05:30 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

Actually I don´t think that democracy should be defined as 50% +1, that is not democracy but rule of the majority. Democracy is where every citizen´s rights are respected, not 51% of the people´s dictatorship over the other 49%. And especially when it comes to changes to constitution, the changes should not be approved by 51%.

 

 Can´t agree more!

41.       slavica
814 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 05:33 pm

 

Quoting elenagabriela

 

 

 I agree{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

I am from one of ex - communist country; my friends and I hoped more after 1989..but..all in vain...Indeed, all was a big lie, the life, the work...nowadays is better even if most of us dont want to see the truth; if you are able to work good and efficient your life is good; indeed, we are so far from Germany, Belgium or France, but we are not so hard working people; we like to receive a bit and to give a bit - my opinion; indeed, they are my peoples...anyway, as you said, the democracy and progress are so different from coruption; the coruption exist, maybe, everywhere, but that not means we dont need progress and change to better

 

If you both have noticed, I said "democracy". Because I don´t think we have democracy now, it is just a different kind of  dictatorship, call it "democracy", communism, socialism or whatever you want. It is nice if some had luck to get democracy and are happier today than before, but the fact is that some are not. Just changes don´t necessary mean progress and betterment. And I am not sure if Turkey with recent changes have got democracy or "democracy".

42.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 06:24 pm

I am really puzzled with your understandings about what democracy is..

I really am..

Can somebody explain it here that what is against the democracy here?

What is it not democratic here, in this process?

-There is a constitution there.

-where is it from? from 1982..from the army days..

Is that constitution more democratic than the one after the changes?

Are you saying that the one made one by the army is much better for the Turks? 

People wanted to change that (in fact, personally, I have wanted to change that constitution in my entire life).. what is the problem here? 

Then, how could we change that army made constitution? 

You just tell me!!! 

I will ask again:

-which part of the amendments are not democratic? 

-can you show which part?

If you are unable to show which part is anti democratic, how is it you are able to say that ´51% is asserting the majority dictatorship´? 

-what is it.. which part of amendment is trying to assert the "majority´s dictatorship"?

Please... Everybody should respect the decision of Turkish people..

43.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 06:45 pm

IF DEMOCRACY IS A GAME OF NUMBERS ONLY

 

Then, when 51% of the voting citizens vote to kick a certain group of other citizens whose ethnic group appears to breed noisy terorists out of the country; and such terorists are immediately deported - that is democracy !

There must be a limit to the noise public majority can endure ! {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

Right?



Edited (9/15/2010) by AlphaF
Edited (9/15/2010) by AlphaF

44.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 07:01 pm

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/09/eu-justice-commissioner-calls-frances-deporting-of-gypsies-a-disgrace/1?csp=34

 

Perfect democratic practices from France ! What is EU bitching about? {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}



Edited (9/15/2010) by AlphaF

45.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 07:03 pm

That is part of the reason why I keep asking:

which part in that commandment  is against the human rights of the people and how?

For example:

-you can not bring sheria with the constitution or referendum (even with 99% majority. what about 1% basic rights?)

-you can not kick out Kurds with the referendum or constitution (it will be violating the basic  rights of living..).

So, is  anybody able to tell me which part?  



Edited (9/15/2010) by thehandsom

46.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 15 Sep 2010 Wed 09:28 pm

Looks like Serbia really lost a lot after 1989. I´ve never realised it was that much, I mean, everybody from our block went on holiday or summer camps to Yugoslavia or Bulgaria and was always very pleased (not only because such trips were sponsored by the company/factory you worked for).

I´ve often wondered why the separation of USSR or Czechoslovakia were peaceful and Yugoslavia shed their share of blood. I still can´t understand why the majority of EU countries accepted breaking the law and recognised Kosovo. Serbs got more humiliation than any other European country after WWII.

Poland actually benefited from the falling down of communism. No more queuing for 3 days and not knowing what will still be on sale when it´s your turn. No more arrests and biased courts, not more paramilitary troops clubbing people to death or shooting at protesting miners. Freedom. Sure, there is no social care like we had. But there´s ownership. You have to take a massive mortgage to buy a 38m2 (124sq ft) one bedroom flat, but it is yours. Nobody can get the idea like you have too many metres/person and accommodate a stranger to your flat...well..like to everything, there upsides and downsides, i suppose...

On the subject, don´t most western countries have Supreme Court Judges nominated by the president?

47.       vineyards
1954 posts
 16 Sep 2010 Thu 09:47 am

We say the Balkans but there are indeed subgroups within the region. Those in the South are warm blooded people, we could group these people together as Bosnians, Croatians, Serbs, Turks, Bulgarians, Albanians Greeks and Macedonians. These people are quite different from those in the North. They are open to foreign influence and are affected by all positive and negative trends evolving around them but they have a strong nationalist outlook and a deep hatred of anyone or anything that may jeopardize their unity.

This is the reason why all these countries held on to their national identities despite being a part of a Muslim nation for 500-600 years. When you read the individual histories of those nations, you will often find a hero whose biggest achievement was beating the Turks at an epic war. Therefore there is also an East-West polarization in the Balkans. Being muslims, Bosnians are still considered East and their very existence in Yugoslavia was a reason for grunt and grudge.

We could consider Romania as a cross-culture. Being related to Italians they are essentially South but since they are outside the major conflicts of the Balkans they are a bit North as well.

 

slavica and elenagabriela liked this message
48.       elenagabriela
2040 posts
 16 Sep 2010 Thu 10:33 am

 

Quoting vineyards

We could consider Romania as a cross-culture.  

 

 I agree...

49.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2010 Tue 01:32 am

You WERE like a sheep!!


We always used to see you  as ignorant, uneducated and an obstacle of the advancement of this country..We would see you  as you and your continuing conservatism would never understand us as the educated, enlightened and the real owner of this country. This was making us really content. But if you accepted the  enlighten that we were giving you, if you were like us, how happy we would be..

As you know, we established this country........


what did you do now? you proved you are ignorant, again, you have given 58 % YES to some higgledy-piggledy questions as if you did understand what it was about as if your capacity is enough to understand the problems of Turkey. See, we would continue to think like that happily because  we liked our assumptions this way. We would be happy with our privileges with our superiority and we would console ourselves with your ignorance for each problem.. 

But a survey smashed our dreams into pieces and confused our minds about  who is more ignorant, who is more biased, who is more status quo supporter..

Is it true my brother, when asked why you voted YES in the referendum and third of them in first four are :
-You thought Turkey will be more free 58.2 %
-You wanted to change the constitution of coup 42.4 %
-You wanted the judiciary to be independent 29.9 %

is it true my brother you gave above answers?

We always assumed only us, people who lived in the west of Turkey, on the shores, would protect values like  ´freedom, coup, independent  judiciary´. Our brains were conditioned to think like that.. Why did you smash our dream world,  my brother, what are we going to protect now? how can we exist with our  status quo with which we even supported the coup, only to be against AKP.

We would continue to say "You are like a sheep" brother

We would say ´this ignorant people´ were guilty of all these, my brother..
we were glad to get away from our traumas that way by brother..
We were making ourselves relaxed this way and always being right was sweet..
What did you do to us my brother?


======
Above is an article, written for the people who think that people who voted for YES because they are ignorant and backwards!!

This is the news where it shows the survey about the people why they said YES or NO:
http://www.haber3.com/turkiye-neden-evethayir-dedi-605624h.htm


in a nutshell

why people said NO?
-I did not want AKP to settle in the governement 48%
-I said NO to Erdogan 46%
-I did not want the goverment to capture the judiciary 40%
-I did not want Erdogan to escape from judiciary 28%

why people said YES?
-I thought Turkey will be more free 58.2 %
-For Erdogan 46%
-I wanted to change the constitution of coup 42.4 %
-I wanted the judiciary to be independent 29.9 %

 

I dont think above requires any comments but it can clearly be said that :

People who voted YES were voted for the constitution ammendments, people who voted for NO, voted to oppose AKP, not for the contents of the amendments!! (It makes sense because, I know almost everybody opposed this coup constitution.. But for the sake of the politics, the opposition parties supported the constitution of the coup!!)

´Freedom, coup, independent  judiciary etc´ were the concern of the YES voters.. Not the NO voters it seems

 

50.       turkishcobra
607 posts
 21 Sep 2010 Tue 01:57 am

 

Quoting thehandsom


in a nutshell

why people said NO?
-I did not want AKP to settle in the governement 48%
-I said NO to Erdogan 46%
-I did not want the goverment to capture the judiciary 40%
-I did not want Erdogan to escape from judiciary 28%

why people said YES?
-I thought Turkey will be more free 58.2 %
-For Erdogan 46%
-I wanted to change the constitution of coup 42.4 %
-I wanted the judiciary to be independent 29.9 %

 

I dont think above requires any comments but it can clearly be said that :

People who voted YES were voted for the constitution ammendments, people who voted for NO, voted to oppose AKP, not for the contents of the amendments!! (It makes sense because, I know almost everybody opposed this coup constitution.. But for the sake of the politics, the opposition parties supported the constitution of the coup!!)

´Freedom, coup, independent  judiciary etc´ were the concern of the YES voters.. Not the NO voters it seems

 

 

Hahaha, you are really funny!

 

Anti-Erdoğan voters are %46 and voters for Erdoğan are %46, too! Is this your way of voting for ammendments? Or are they ammendments of Erdoğan? Contradiction loves you, man

 

 

 



Edited (9/21/2010) by turkishcobra
Edited (9/21/2010) by turkishcobra

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