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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

(1954 Messages in 196 pages - View all)
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Thread: Mongolia to import 20.000 males from Turkey

541.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Jan 2010 Fri 03:03 pm

Don´t believe in the news you read in the Turkish media. As far as I can observe even the most accurate news are only about 80% true.


542.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Jan 2010 Fri 03:00 pm

If you like Coelho, you´ll probably like Pamuk too. I feel there is a further link between these two and Umberto Eco. Eco strayed from usual novel form and these two followed in his foot steps. The difference being where the other two are just two laymen in matters they covered in their books, Eco has also a very strong philosophical and scientific background. He knows what he is writing better than everyone else therefore nobody speculates about him.


Like you I like the first two books of Coelho and a few books by Pamuk. They are fairly easy to read and relaxing. If you have an adventerous mind that likes to take excursions into myths, you may find yourself with puzzles. I prefer to iron them out in my mind for the sake of saving some grey matter for more down-to-earth uses.

Edited (1/22/2010) by vineyards

Thread: Please look - I´m on Hurriyet!

543.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Jan 2010 Fri 01:20 am

You have quite a good control on your voice. You deserve all the accolades being made.


You need to work on your phrasing a bit. Being able to handle high notes requires professional help. You render the mid-range notes quite correctly. The singing is not exactly Turkish style but it is good.


As for your Turkish, it is quite remarkable that you can render round wovels almost like a native speaker. "ı"s (the ones without a dot) give you away. Intonation is very slightly wrong too.


These are not real problems.  On the contrary, they show how close you are to native like command. I suppose you live(d) here.


Good luck.

Thread: Two pennies for your thoughts ....!!

544.       vineyards
1954 posts
 21 Jan 2010 Thu 12:54 pm


A few decades back, Turkey used to be a lot poorer than it is today. The country faced a series of catastrophies that began with the decline and the eventual collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

Turkey had to wage an unbelievably expensive war on dozens of fronts in a geography ranging from The Caucasus to North Africa. When everything was over, there was an Anatolia invaded by the British, French and Italian soldiers.


The road to the collapse of the empire began in the Balkans with the spread of the nationalist sentiment. You remember Lord Byron, Lawrence of Arabia etc. Turkish republic was founded on a similar nationalistic principles. The roots of Turkishness were sawn during that period. All the major events of the period including the alleged massacre of the Armenians can be linked to this nationalist upheaval.


We are talking about a staggering poverty, pain and unbearable sufferings which constituted the basis of ethnic awareness. The political machine that created this movement made sure that this nationalistic upheaval must be limited to the exact borders of the Ottoman Empire. We would observe years later during the collapse of the Soviet Empire that such things can be planned beforehand and with staggering precision.


Going back to Turkey: Ataturk determined that Turkey must turn its face to the West. He changed so many aspects of society in order to ease the transformation. He revolutionized the educational system to block the venues of superstitious thinking and backward philosophies.


After Ataturk´s death in 1938, another world war began. Though Turkey was not a part of it, it bore the devastating economic consequences. There was a huge economic crisis in the country. Food was sold by ration and the rapid industrialization that marked the first decades of the new republic had come to a halt.


In the 50´s a pro-American party won the election. They had a problem with some of the reforms Ataturk had introduced. They wanted to have a more Islamic Turkey and they wanted the country to follow the example of the US. Tightening mutual relations created a more obedient Turkey which determined its policies in line with the US.


Turkey became a member of many European organizations during this entire period. It was a founding member of The European Council, UN and NATO. Therefore, The EU is considered as a natural next step.


Economically, Turkey does not need the EU. Maybe we just think that we are looking for a better organized country with less conflict and more efficiency. As you can see, the entire history of the new republic is a history of Europeanization. It is such that the concept "europeanization"  almost exclusively refer to Turkey.



Quoting lemon

Turkey and EU!


the hottest topic ever! it keeps coming back. and i still dont understand turks. im trying to, but my way of thinking fails me in getting into the turkish minds although im quite more turkish than anything else (i mean the mentality).


eu promised, eu failed. i think in some aspects mutually.


turkey is a power (according to turks themselves). the power in every sense - military, economy, territory, education etc!(which of course im trying to explain myself despite the huge proportions of turkish diaspora in all the western world)


then why eu is needed? then why turkey is offended so big time? why is this all whinning and anger?


oh, bwt, just two pennies of mine.


the whole discussion resembles the talks at the bazar which never ends and goes nowhere.





Edited (1/21/2010) by vineyards
Edited (1/21/2010) by vineyards


545.       vineyards
1954 posts
 21 Jan 2010 Thu 01:11 am

Of course, I haven´t read all the best novels but the ones I remember at first blush are:


Ulyses (Joyce)

Anna Karenina (Tolstoy)

Father Goriot (Balzac)

Fathers and Sons (Turgenev)

Crime and Punishment (Dostoevsky)


Each one of these book influenced me in a different way. I owe my nihilist side to my (mis)understanding of Turgenev´s magnificent novel.


Father Goriot is a masterpiece of depictions.

Anna Karenina represents the ultimate point reached in story telling.


You almost feel you are a part of the story when you read Crime and Punishment since you keep questioning yourself and feel as if you are facing the same venues of deceit and corruption as you drift from one episode to another in a state of sheer oblivion and complete deprivation.


Ullyses must be one of the most difficult to understand novels.

Edited (1/21/2010) by vineyards

Thread: the non-xenofoob thread!

546.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 08:57 pm


Quoting barba_mama

My friend´s Turkish partner is coming to Holland soon (I´m very happy for them) and she kept talking about him wanting to get his driver´s license in Holland. I was wondering if his Dutch is good enough for this. But... guess what... you can take the test in Turkish!

Since there is a LOT on this forum on racism and xenofobic reactions... how about a thread on non-xenofobic things we see in our every day lives?


Well, that´s very considerate of the Dutch authorities.

In Turkey, tourists can drive with their existing licenses. If they live in Turkey, they have to get a notary certified translation of their licenses.


I couldn´t find out what happens when they have to get a license from scratch. I would expect there would be English and/or German versions of the exam but I am not sure.

Thread: Norway does it again

547.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 04:20 pm


Quoting Yersu



Ok first of all I think I was rude and I want to apologize. But come on Vineyards, don´t take it so badly. Don´t you think your post kinda lacked real substance? Sounded to me like every other humanist preaching out there.


I don´t know what is your understanding of humanism is. Can you clarify this point?



Thread: Norway does it again

548.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 03:00 pm

 I agree with you.


Quoting barba_mama


Anywayyyy, enough about Turkey! Back to Norway... The whole thing that started this discussion was the question if this was really something that is a racist act, reflective of Norway. (I hope we all agree by now that this can not possibly be a reflective act of Europe as a whole, since my in depth investigation into Dutch practices  ) I still can´t say if this was a racist act. The facts are not clear. I think it´s normal to send the police when somebody threatens ambulance personel, even when it´s on the phone. Around large parts of the world violence against public service personel has risen. It is important to keep these people safe. Yes, somehing CLEARLY has gone wrong in this Norwegian case. But WHAT went wrong, nobody here really knows. I hope the results of the investigations around this will be published.



Thread: Norway does it again

549.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 02:56 pm


Quoting Yersu

Dear Catwoman;


I think Vineyards might have thought I am a run of the mill White nationalist/ xenophobic European, since when I read my post again even I thought so. That must be why he wrote all that tolerance stuff and politically correct but practically incorrect humanist mumbo jumbo we all are too tired of. Yeah sorry.


I feel terribly sorry for having written this wishy-washy, unnecessarily lengthy humanist mumbo jumbo.


I understand, I am stealing from your focus and your time when you are so busy learning English.


Thread: Norway does it again

550.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 05:46 am


Quoting catwoman



So you are now taking him more seriously and calmly because he´s Turkish, eh? {#emotions_dlg.unsure} Sorry if my post came across as if I was accusing you, or anyone in particular here of racism - because I was not, and I can see why it had made you angry, but I am disappointed by this.


No. Admittedly, I had written a longer message where I drew his attention to several things including the one you are complaining of. Seeing that he wanted to play down the matter , I just deleted what I wrote and posted a shorter message focusing on my own attitude.


Now that a suspicion has occured about this matter; I must clarify by saying that I also think that being a Turk does not change a thing.


As a matter of fact, I seriously dislike the prevalent mentality in my country, I detest so many aspects of the established culture. Living in today´s Turkey feels like being stuck in a cesspool of corruption, ignorance and deceit. In a big country with crowded cities, things do not always develop the way you want them to. We have to go through all of these not-so-welcome changes in society. No society has ever been perfect and it will probably will never be.


This however, will not stop me from criticizing a country about an incident involving tragic elements. You see I have a very poor image of my own country in many regards. Still I am aware of its good aspects too. The only difference between some of you frequent posters here is that I try not to think by retailiations. This approach is extremely counter-productive.


If I didn´t take you seriously, I wouldn´t take my time and post these long messages... To me, everyone contributing here is valuable. Ask yourself, if it is really so for some of us.


Isn´t it true that some users are booed at from time to time, their posts are laughed at, found boring etc. In my opinion, the reason behind that is intolerance. We should thank these posters for contributing with their points of view. Some of them may have decided to leave. Pity because, all their desire was to share something with us rather than talking about dudus and all that usual stuff.



Edited (1/20/2010) by vineyards

(1954 Messages in 196 pages - View all)
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