Practice Turkish |
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I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive
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60. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:26 pm |
"kitap okumak" as you see it is common while "günbatımı görmek" is uncommon. So the verbal noun case sound more natural and less eye catching. But you can say:
Seni görmek istiyorum.
Bu filmi görmek istiyorum.
You could stick with the infinitive to make it easier.
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61. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:34 pm |
Quoting erdinc: "kitap okumak" as you see it is common while "günbatımı görmek" is uncommon. |
It might be more common to you!
But I can assure you that if you had the view I have out of my back window, watching sunsets would be more common than reading books
Autumn View
Winter View
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62. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 04:03 pm |
1. Güzel bir günbatımı görmek istiyorum.
2. Güzel bir günbatımı görmeyi istiyorum.
The first sentence sounds strange as seeing a sunset is not the same kind of action as seeing a film, reading a book or eating a dinner. It feels like when you say "Güzel bir günbatımı görmek istiyorum" you are expecting somebody to appear and say "Yes, Sir. Just a second please. Would you like anything else with the sunset" It is like saying "Let's arrange things in such a way that I can see a nice sunset".
A movie director could say "güzel bir günbatımı görmek istiyorum" if somebody has control over the sunset with some technical light effects or such or if they are talking of the sunset in the film which is changeable in computer environment. "Show me a nice sunset here and remove these birds in the sky. Make the red a little darker. I want to see a nice sunset here."
"Günbatımını görmek istiyorum" would be a strong sentence. It has the accusative case so "I want to see THE sunset" where the sunset is the direct object I'm referring to. It is clear which sunset I want to see. But we can't use this in 1 or 2 since "güzel bir", "a nice" is implying that it is undefinitive and I'm not interested which sunset it is but just it has to be nice.
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63. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 04:20 pm |
Quoting erdinc: "Günbatımını görmek istiyorum" would be a strong sentence. It has the accusative case so "I want to see THE sunset" where the sunset is the direct object I'm referring to. It is clear which sunset I want to see. But we can't use this in 1 or 2 since "güzel bir", "a nice" is implying that it is undefinitive and I'm not interested which sunset it is but just it has to be nice. |
But presumably removing bir would solve that problem!
Güzel günbatımını görmek istiyorum
Incidentally, am I right that the ultimate 'n' in günbatımıni is a fusion consonant?
Saat ikiyi çeyrek geçiyor (14:15)
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64. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:07 pm |
No removing the bir increases the problem. Now we have a noun phrase with "güzel günbatımı" and this is indicating that there is something existing such as "nice sunset" and "uggly sunset".
Güzel bir film izlemek istiyorum.
I would like to watch a nice movie.
Film izlemek istiyorum.
a. I want to watch movies.
b. I want to watch a movie.
Filmi izlemek istiyorum.
I want to watch the movie.
Bu filmi izlemek istiyorum.
I want to watch this movie.
These are correct but we cant say:
Güzel filmi izlemek istiyorum.
I want to watch THE nice movie.
as there is no such thing as "the nice movie" where the movie is a certain movie and is described as nice movie, it is incorrect because there is no matching object in the real world to "the nice movie". It sounds unnatural. But if somebody comes and asks you the following it can be OK.
-Hey buddy. I have two movies. One is a weird movie and the other is a nice movie. Which one would you like to watch?
-Güzel filmi izlemek istiyorum.
Here it is correct.
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65. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:23 pm |
Quoting erdinc: No removing the bir increases the problem. |
O banım şaşırtir!
I think that only familiarity will teach me these sorts of things :-S I need to find something simple enough that I can read it, but complex enough that I get to see examples of real sentence structures and their applications.
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66. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:43 pm |
Quoting bod:
O banım şaşırtir!
I think that only familiarity will teach me these sorts of things :-S I need to find something simple enough that I can read it, but complex enough that I get to see examples of real sentence structures and their applications. |
This is a very good point. Actually you dont need so many grammer details at all. All you need is texts that are easy to read.
After a year or so we will have enough reading material as a team of us is working on this subject. Maybe you can open a new thread and ask if anybody knows any suitable text for Turkish learners.
As far as I know there are not many. In fact I couldnt find a single text so I have written my own texts. Actually I need somebody to put them on a web page so that we can add them to this website.
Because you have been a good student I will send you one of my short stories that I have written (and drawn) especially for learners. It is with the simple past tense (okudu) as this is the easiest tense to learn after the infinitive (okumak) and imperative (oku).
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67. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:49 pm |
Quote: Quoting erdinc: After a year or so we will have enough reading material as a team of us is working on this subject. Maybe you can open a new thread and ask if anybody knows any suitable text for Turkish learners. |
I did start |
this thread a while back and nothing very much came of it besides a few potentially useful leads :-S
Quoting erdinc: Because you have been a good student I will send you one of my short stories that I have written (and drawn) especially for learners. |
Teşekklür
But I think you have the wrong impression of me!!!! good student - you obviously have not seen the rebel in me yet
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68. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:58 pm |
I'd actually be interested in one of your stories too, because I'd like to help with reading material next year. N it would be good to see how you do it.
As soon as my own turkish course starts, I'm planning to write little stories. Those texts should each handle a certain grammar-aspect. For example, a text based upon Present Continous Tense forms. Easy, with vocabulary lists so that you learn whilst reading.
I was rather disappointed myself that i couldnt find any good reading material. Therefore i'd like to write my own and put it on the website here somehwere, so that others wont get disappointed.
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69. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 09:01 pm |
maybe bod can put it somewhere so others can benefit as well. By the way we are working on the subject this year (2006) and not next year.
Mine are very short and very simple. We are working on a project of much moe complicated books starting from 200 words and ending with 1500 words. But lets see this with time.
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70. |
09 Jan 2006 Mon 09:06 pm |
Well i always forget that i talk in academic years, which will still be 2006..
Plus i think any reading material would be welcome, don't you think? No matter what time. Because the learning goes on anyways
Does anyone know where to find Turkish folkstories? I'd like to simplify those in Turkish.
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