Nice defence, Faruk.

Interesting. The Arabic input in Turkish vocabulary is so massive it wouldn´t be any wonder if it was exaggerated also in some details. One day while I was listening to an Arabic song it came to my mind that most of its words could be found in Turkish dictionary also, at least as the second alternative for certain meanings. It has made my learning easier, of course, but for some reason if I have the chance to choose between the original Turkish word and the Arabic loan I prefer the former even though they are both as foreign in my ears. It is just that loan words  -  even if they are a normal consequence of cultural contacts  -  are degeneration of language also if at a certain period of time they come in from doors and windows.

Thank you for taking a look at my text again, si++.

Tüm Oyunlar, Bütün Oyunlar, Oyunların hepsi is the headline of a Turkish children’s game site. A learner cannot see the small nuances but it seems to me that one and the same thing is said in three different ways. The language is oversupplied with expressions of ‘all’. It is one of the meanings of both tüm, bütün and hep-.

There used to be two words for ‘whole’ in Turkish, the homemade bütün and the Arabic origin tüm. The use of tüm was narrower while bütün when qualifying a plural noun also ment ‘all’. As a result of some kind of misunderstanding language reformers strongly recommended the same usage for tüm and succeeded. In local dialects tüm can still be restricted to the meaning ‘whole’. Both tüm Türkiye and bütün Türkiye have thousands of occurances in Google meaning ‘the whole Turkey’. I wonder if their colour is the same or if one of them sounds more archaic or rural than the other.

The syntactic roles of bütün and tüm differ slightly. While bütün is a noun and adjective (bütün millet or milletin bütünü ‘the whole nation&rsquo tüm is more like an adverb (tüm cahil ‘completely ignorant&rsquo.

In modern language both bütün and tüm are used with plural nouns with the pronominal meaning ‘all’: Alkol tüm kötülüklerin babasıdır. ‘Alcohol is the origin of all troubles’, Bütün yatırımcıların amacı, olabildiğince az risk alarak kar elde etmektir ‘Every investor’s aim is to make profit taking as small a risk as possible’. In possessive constructions bütün and tüm usually mean ‘whole’ but some cases of ‘all’ can be found. The occurances I found concern faceless groups of people like schoolers and soldiers: Hoca çocukların tümüne olumlu cevap vermiş:…, İrak’taki Amerikali askerlerinin tümü çekiliyor.

Thanks for your effort again, scalpel. Do you mean ihtiyaç olmak governs only nouns? Stubborn as I am I even checked the first 1691 pages from Google hits and found only a couple of cases with indirect infinitive object:

         Kimsenin kucağına oturmaya ihtiyacım yok.

So, I guess the case is clear. Anyway, as modalities always tend to move into more abstract meanings, this structure might be on its way into expressing ´not being necessary´ also. The development of modal expressions is surprisingly alike in non-related languages.

In addition to Halledeniz’s detailed explanation let me tell you my own practical approach to problems like this. (I’m just a learner, though, you remember.)

Every verb that governs noun phrases demands a certain case for them. This is basic dictionary information. Often the case government is logical: ev|e gidiyorum (movement towards). Often it isn’t. There may be historical reasons for a certain choice which the speakers cannot restore any more. Natives will tell you it is just this way and it has always been like this.

geçmek is a verb with many meanings. www.turkishdictionary.net lists 38 of them. geçmek governs at least nouns which take accusative, dative and ablative cases. A verb like this is like an overloaded function: it has unrelated meanings that differ only by the case that is used in the noun that it governs.

Suppose we are looking for a verb equivalent to the English ‘pass’. This is the information that we will find:

The best way for a learner to manage with case governing problems is to take the information just as it is given and not to ask too many questions. The reasons for a certain choice are always different. So, my advice is to take full advantage of the dictionary and always to check when you deal with a new verb.

Problems of case governing of course concern especially those languages where cases have an important role in the grammar. But similarly, those of us who don’t speak English as their mother tongue have to learn certain preposition rules by heart. For instance, it is not obvious for me for instance that we believe in something or apply for something. I just had to learn it when I studied the verb itself.

Clear. Faruk, thanks.

For the meaning of ´it is not necessary for him, he doesn´t have to´ is ihtiyac olmak the only possibility?

Thank you, si++, tunci, scalpel. The connection with the adjective suffix looks clear from the surface, even to the level of meaning but in derivation especially everything is not always as it looks like. It was just a thought.

What do you say, can Baba evde olmamalı also mean ´Father doesn´t have to/need to be at home´? Similarly, what does Bayanlar makyaj yapmalı mı? Yapmamalı mı? mean exactly?

When a complete sentence is made a part of another sentence sometimes changes happen in the subject. There is a thread with the name Inlayed Subject somewhere in the Language section. It shows the process when I explained this question to myself. Don´t look at my questions so much, concentrate on what the teacher answers.

No, tunci, you can´t fool me, those letters were basic grammar mistakes. But I don´t object, I needed the duck. Thank you.