Small Notes:

1. Polis, onun mopedine yolun dışında kendisinin binip binmediğini bilmek istiyor.

- Why the locative, when driving out of the road is movement towards?

2. Hiç kimse albay Gaddafi´nin sakladığı yerini saklandığı yeri bilmiyormuş gibi.

- I didn´t notice that saklamak is transitive. Then saklanmak is reflexive or what? Doesn´t yer really have any possessive connection to the preceeding words (as it only has accusative ending)?

Oh yes I did. You didn´t read my message, acute.

Interesting post. I like your style, recond1te (where do you guys find all these beautiful nics?). I have really walked around sometimes in a bad mood for the same reason. Some texts are simply abuse. I wish I could help with some of the crap sometimes but after all it´s tunci usually who has to clean up the translation section in the end of the day because none of us learners is able to first a) translate e > t or b) translate texts that are extremely long. What bothers me is that those who know have to waste their time and expertese on (even sometimes morally questionable) things like that.

But. I think translation service is available on this site not because people don´t know how to say no. When all those people with language problems know that this is the place where you most certainly get help, sometimes it might happen that something nice comes along, something that is good practice for Henry or deli or someone else. It´s a nice feeling when you can really help someone, and it might encourage learners to do better. But this only works if the shop is open all the time, which means no one with a translation request will have to leave with empty hands.

Another point is that these messages are real language. You can see how Turkish is really used in everyday communication, with shortcomings and errors as they really are in the reality.

On a silent day when few people bother to post anything the translation requests may keep the New in Forums -pile lively. And who knows, maybe one of the customers will really get interested in the language one day.

There is a certain wisdom in it, I mean.

si++. Sağ olun. Again and always.

I was trying to practice sentences with relative clauses and indirect questions. Let´s see if I have any clue:

No, you don´t have to bother. Not for me at least. As the matter of fact even writing the question was enough for me, kind of sorting what I had paid attention to.

Very often in agglutinating languages old and frequent suffixes have lost their special characteristics and become alike. This overlapping is sometimes confusing to the learner: you are told that everything is perfectly marked but you need to gain specific knowledge to separate all the small items from each other. Often it goes through trial and error.

Mavili, -ci is a suffix which gives names of professionals, like dişçi ´dentist´, ormancı ´forester´, toptancı ´wholesaler´, röntgenci ´radiographer´. It´s good to learn some suffixes so that you can guess what something might mean if you don´t know for sure.

A very amusing discussion in a brotherly atmosphere. It seems that it´s not only one -ce but more. (What you mentioned about the accentation in the end is a strong proof for that.) Maybe this diminutive thing is separate from the "equative" or adverbial and heaven knows how they are linked to the verbal uses, if they are. From a learner´s point of view I think it´s just important to recognize this variety in meanings.

I was reading an introduction to Turkish grammatical structure from 1992 and was surprised to find there (after the usual 6 + instrumental) the eighth case called equative. The writer, Jorma Atilla, described it as an ambiguous case which can express things like ´according to/on behalf of/by´ and which is marked with -ce (plus its all vowel harmony variants, of course). The following examples were given:

         Mahkemece verilen karar sizi de bağlar. (agent of a passive clause, which I thougt was always expressed by a postposition structure)

         Gençler arkadaşça davranıyorlardı.

         Parçaları aylarca beklemek zorunda kaldık.

It´s no big deal. The border line between word derivation and inflection is not a clear one in any language and some endings may just carry characteristics from them both. But it still made me think of the various things in Turkish which are expressed by -ce. I don´t know if the following are from the same origin  -  probably not  -  but the outward similarity is confusing to a learner:

1. -ce makes adverbs from adjectives (iyice ´well´, güzelce ´properly, beautifully´ and nouns (çocukça ´childishly´. It makes an agent in passive voice. It´s used in numerical expressions (haftalarca önce ´weeks before´ and names of languages derived from names of people (İngilizce) plus in other adverbial expressions like bence and böylece.

2. -ce is a diminutive marker, as it modifies adjectives: güzelce ´quite good´, genççe ´rather young´

3. -ce seems to be a usual last-two-letters in verb inflection, too. The -ince-gerund of a verb describes an action just prior to the main verb: o gelince kalkarım ´when he comes I shall get up´. Added to a dik-participle -ce denotes ´so long as, the more´: o güldükçe, ben de güldüm. And I´m sure that´s not all of it.

I guess what is described in 1. is close to what the writer ment with Turkish equative.

And finally the question. What is the question? Ok, the question is Isn´t this confusing?

Consider me ignorant and look at my intention only.