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Living - working in Turkey

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What Pam Coo's case means to you Turkish serious friends??
(86 Messages in 9 pages - View all)
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60.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 03:38 pm

Quoting Lady_A:


I didn't read all the posts, but i think i get the picture...maybe it was answered before, but i want to ask a single question: why are turkish guys always so willing to have an adventure....i include here even married men and fathers and especially with foreign girls.



Shouldn't the same be asked about foreign girls?

61.       lady in red
6947 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 04:31 pm

Quoting geniuda:

Quoting turquoise:

this really sad, im not happy to tell you that but most turkish guys are like that,when it comes to a foreign girl most of them will think only about money or meat cuz,those kind of people already see the girls as a meat. so they like to play with foreign girls cuz its easier to have sex with them, i hear u ask why, cuz they grow up with no having sex and turkish girls prefer saving their virginity because our culture (even though there are many girls that not virgin they wont be in a relationship or sleep with those guys)and the guys im talking about never will get married with a girl not virgin,but when it comes to them they like to play with girls,yeah this sad and big ignorance..its so easy to say 'i love you' and easy to think you are in love with anyone but you all know it takes time...

i saw many foreign girls hurt by those stupids and complaining about them but i wanna ask that how come u can be fool that much and believe and trust a guy that you dont know well and you cant even talk to him with no translation. if you can that means to me you want an adventure.if you dont want an adventure please be careful and make sure about the guys and make sure you are safe,dont be fool and make sure your not doing any mistake,at least see if he still loves you after you go back to your country.

it came to pam in this post but shes not the only one having these problems.she has right to ask for help with translations and maybe she has nothing else to do and theres nothing shameful. people do mistakes thats life is a big experience.yeah she shouldve been careful but thats not what we should talk about actually. i have never talked about these things here once i did and i think i did a mistake.we should not judge people here if u dont want to help dont do anything else as well.

so pam, im sorry your having hard time and if u need help feel free to ask...

btw sorry for my bad english, i hope i could tell what i meant...


+100000 Well said Turquoise!!
and your message should pop up on a big screen right after someone joins this site for the first time.

----------------

Actually I think it should be handed out at the Turkish airports along with the visa.

62.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 04:46 pm

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting Lady_A:


I didn't read all the posts, but i think i get the picture...maybe it was answered before, but i want to ask a single question: why are turkish guys always so willing to have an adventure....i include here even married men and fathers and especially with foreign girls.



Shouldn't the same be asked about foreign girls?



good point girlee...

and isnt it all about human nature this is not with being Turkish guys... this is just human nature... created with the recent popular culture...

63.       Lady_A
414 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 05:21 pm

No it's not in human nature...and it's not right...and i had a very hard time avoiding the hustling of (some) turkish man...maybe we should both agree that not all foreign girls are the same and maybe not all turkish men.

64.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 05:37 pm

Quoting Lady_A:

No it's not in human nature...and it's not right...and i had a very hard time avoiding the hustling of (some) turkish man...maybe we should both agree that not all foreign girls are the same and maybe not all turkish men.



well i am in austria now... and be sure that here the guys are worse

65.       Lady_A
414 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 05:39 pm

I have never heard things like that about Austria, but who knows...i take it you're a girl too...?

66.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 05:43 pm

Quoting Lady_A:

I have never heard things like that about Austria, but who knows...i take it you're a girl too...?



nope dear, i am not a girl... lol...
but you know you talk to eachother so that you get their point of view... believe me they are everywhere

67.       Lady_A
414 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 05:58 pm

Maybe you are right, i haven't travelled that much, but where i've been i've found no men like turkish (in the bad way)

68.       Trudy
7887 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 06:08 pm

Quoting Lady_A:

Maybe you are right, i haven't travelled that much, but where i've been i've found no men like turkish (in the bad way)



Can't wait for Turkish guys here to defend themselves.... lol lol (BTW, I haven't had those bad experiences, at least not more than anywhere else.)

69.       portokal
2516 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 06:16 pm

This forum was so far about being unexperienced, rushing into a love affair, charming, lies, popular culture, popular turism and sometimes sex tourism.
Either we agree or disagree on these, all these experiences are avoidable. By acting, behaving in a manner to avoid these.


Before my travel i gathered some infos, like this quotation below, taken from the Turkey Travel Planner, by Tom Broshnahan, author of the first editions of Lonely Planet Turkey.
(I must admit i have still many things to discover about turkish culture...
no offence please if this quotation has some discussable points. Personally i am looking forward on some interesting forum topics.)

__________________________________________________________
Women/Female Travellers in Turkey

What's it like to be a woman traveling in Turkey?

Most female visitors find Turks—both men and women—extremely welcoming, accommodating and helpful, and enjoy their trips immensely.

Am I crazy to think of traveling alone as a woman in Turkey?

Not at all, so long as you conform to local customs and attitudes (as in any country you visit) and take normal, common-sense precautions.

Will I get hassled because I'm a female?

Some women report being hassled—a little or a lot—in Turkey. Others report no problems at all. You can lessen the likelihood of bothersome hassle by dressing and behaving according to local norms. (Read on...)

Will I be in danger?

Violent crime, including assault and rape, is less common in Turkey than in many developed Western countries. No one can predict the future or what will happen to any individual traveler, but many people say they feel safer in Turkey than at home. Take common-sense precautions and observe local norms and you should feel safe in Turkey.

What sort of hassles might foreign women encounter?

Reported hassles include staring, minor groping and pinching, unpleasant sounds and comments, and unwanted romantic advances.

Are Turkish women hassled also?

Sometimes, but they have ways of avoiding most unpleasantness.

Do most men treat women this way?

Absolutely not! Most Turkish men are extremely polite, even courtly, toward women, Turkish or foreign, and will treat you with heartfelt respect and courtesy. You're likely to find most Turkish men more polite and solicitous of your welfare and happiness than many 'Western' men. You may even find that you miss this courtesy after you leave Turkey.

Here's what 'Cruise Diva' Linda Coffman says:

'IMO, there is no better city than Istanbul to either begin or end a cruise.

'I've been to Turkey three times and must add that there's nothing like a Turkish merchant to make an American woman feel welcome and desirable. Of course, it's probably got a lot to do with her American Express card.

'Seriously, I was in Istanbul last summer and felt perfectly safe wandering around shopping on Rumeli Street with a female colleague. We got lost a couple times and Turks on the street very helpfully pointed us in the right direction to find our hotel.'

What can I do to avoid occasional unpleasantness?

As in other Mediterranean countries with similar cultures, you should observe local customs. Do things with others (a female or male companion you know, or a mixed group) when possible. If you're traveling alone, introduce yourself to Turkish women or families, ask a question or strike up a conversation so that you are informally included with them.

In Turkey, as in many other countries, social encounters between men and women who are not relatives or close friends are conducted much more formally than they might be in Europe or--especially--Australia, Canada, or the USA. Also, this formality is maintained for a much longer time.

How can I be 'more formal'?

Dress neatly and act reserved. Be pleasant, but don't smile readily at men you don't know, even when conducting business (registering at a hotel, taking a taxi ride, etc). Be correct and formal, even on the third and fourth encounter. If a man responds by being overly friendly, you should be overly formal. Keep control of the situation, keep it on your terms.

What else can I do?

Set the rules for each encounter. Do things in public, or in group settings in which you know most of the people. Avoid being alone in private with a man or men you do not know well—especially in a car. (Mixed groups, including both Turkish men and Turkish women, are usually fine.)

Why can't I just be the way I normally am? Why do I have to do things differently?

Unfortunately, European and American movies, TV programs, magazines, books—and especially fantasy pornography—often portray 'Western' women as 'loose,' if not downright promiscuous: they go out to clubs and bars on their own, they talk to men to whom they have not been introduced, they even sleep with men they've known for only a short time and have no intention of marrying.

It's true of some Western women, so a Turkish man may assume that it's true of any particular woman—you, for example. Like any Western man, if he's attracted to you he may give it a try and see what happens.

Many Western women smile readily, at anyone. It's looked upon as good manners to smile and be cheerful. Turkish women, who act more formal, don't usually smile at an unfamiliar man until they feel assured that the smile won't be misinterpreted as a come-on. Thus, when a Turkish woman smiles at a man, it means she is willing to be more friendly. It's a calculated escalation of interest, not just part of a cheerful attitude.

So if you smile at a Turkish man just to be pleasant, he might interpret it to mean that you're interested in being even more friendly.

The problem, then, is that the cultural signals passed between men and women, and the expectations, might be quite different, and not what is intended. Neither person is wrong or right, just different. You need to be on the same wavelength for your signals to be taken as you mean them.

If you're not interested, you may give a signal to a Western man ('Get lost!') and he's supposed to wander away. To a Mediterranean male, 'Get lost!' might be taken merely as a pro-forma protest meant to protect your honor, to show that you didn't yield to his charms too easily. You're expected to protest, whether you're interested in him or not. When you say 'Get lost!' to him, it might have the effect of making you seem even more attractive; he might take it as a signal to increase the hit on you.

A half-century ago in Europe, the USA and other highly-developed countries, these same norms and customs were in effect. Well, they still are in Turkey and in many other more traditional societies. Observe them, and your chances of being hassled decrease dramatically.

(by the way, the webpage address is: http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/details/WomenTravelers/index.html)
_________________________________________________________
It is not in my intention to discuss what TB states here, to agree/disagree on what he says about western or turkish cultures, i just want to point out that some of these advices are very reasonable and of good sense.
And useful.
According to this article, and not just, Lonely Planet states this also, that Turkey can be far more safer for a woman than some western countries.

It is much more up to the woman what is happening with her...
And the same goes about hustling, making offers...
A no answer is accepted as such.

Just my humble experience here.

70.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 18 Sep 2007 Tue 06:39 pm

Well, I dont know the exact details of pam's case. But it looks like, you can blame both of them.

pam should have known how to keep ( and of course when to keep) her legs closed. It is no excuse you enjoy it at the time and run around like headless chicken later on.

The young father to be can be blamed for not being sensitive enough with the baby.

I know it is not that simple as above. But in a nut shell, it is to be honest.

Foreign girls are just looking at olive skins and dark eyes I guess. And for the most of Turkish boys, they will have a pass on girls under any circumstances anyway.

I think, specially foreign girls, should realize that Turkish culture is a bit different then theirs. Turkish men will do anything to make girls feel like they are the only living girls on earth and they will do anything to make you feel like you are the princess, you are the one.
But do not forget, 90% of those men/boys still think that there are two types of women/girls on earth: the ones they can marry, and the ones they can have fun.

It is up to the girl in away, to make that man/boy believe she can be in both categories.

Coming back to the case, Of course I feel sorry for Pam.
Done is done..
It is the situation right now.
The reality should be accepted. No matter if it hurts.

If she is young(i guess she is), she should somehow close this chapter and walk away(as a single person, not two! )


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