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A Few Sentences, Vol. II
(605 Messages in 61 pages - View all)
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50.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Aug 2011 Mon 09:55 am

then why did you correct

...damlayı doktorun söylediği gibi kullan...?

Isn´t it an adverbial clause? Yes and No It answers to question how.

gibi acts like an adverb but it is an adjective clause form as a whole. Becasue gibi comes from an old word + possessive suffix

Kip = mode, state

Kip + 3rd sing person possessive suffix = Kip-i > gibi

So it goes with a genitive suffix and adjective clause:

Dediğ-in gib-i olsun

Doktor-un dediğ-i gib-i (like "bir yaz gece-si rüya-")

Sen-in gib-i

 


     It´s not the first time I wonder the same thing. The following three look the same to me:

Mehmet´in yaptığından dolayı asla başaramayız.

Here "Mehmet´in yaptığı" is an adjective clause followed by "-dan dolayı".

Martin Luther King´in dediği gibi "I had a dream."

Onun yaptığı gibi yap.

These are as explained above.


     But still there are examples where the rule seems to operate as expected:

Annesi odaya girdiği gibi bebek ağlamayı bıraktı.

Yes here we have adverbial clause:

 S V+-dik+possessive suffix gibi = just as/when S V or at the same time S V

Sen odaya girdiğin gibi o çıktı = He left just when you entered room.

But the following is adjective clause with different meaning:

Sen-in odaya girdiğin gib-i girmedi. = He didn´t enter the room the same way you did (entered the room)


Hava o güzel olduğu halde, dışarıya çıkmak istemedi.

Bir ameli, Allah emrettiği için yapmak ihlas, emredildiği gibi yapmak ise sadakattır.

Here "emredildiği gibi" = the way it is ordered to be done is an adjective clause but it  is an adverb in the sentence. In Turkish you can use an adjective as an adverb also:

Güzel kız = beautiful girl (adjective)

Güzel yaptı = He did it beautifully. (adverb)

İyi çocuk = Good kid (adjective)

İyi dedin = You said it well ( adverb)


     I don´t know. There seems to be something wrong with the question itself. Maybe you can correct it, too? 

51.       Abla
3642 posts
 15 Aug 2011 Mon 10:17 am

It seems that I have a problem with the concepts. I know in principle that what is understood as adjective in Turkish grammar is not the same thing that we got used to in other languages. This is where the problems occur. No use crying, I´ll just have to clear it to myself.

But I think I understood the differences in the use of gibi: even the meaning is different in the examples. The explanation is in history  -  that´s where is usually is, and there is no shot-cut to the goal.

Thanks again.

52.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Aug 2011 Mon 10:35 am

 

Quoting Abla

It seems that I have a problem with the concepts. I know in principle that what is understood as adjective in Turkish grammar is not the same thing that we got used to in other languages. This is where the problems occur. No use crying, I´ll just have to clear it to myself.

But I think I understood the differences in the use of gibi: even the meaning is different in the examples. The explanation is in history  -  that´s where is usually is, and there is no shot-cut to the goal.

Thanks again.

 

We had another similar topic a while ago, you remember?

 

Thread: The Inlayed Subject

83.       si++
2360 posts

Quote --- Modify
 14 Jul 2011 Thu 05:09 am

 

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Ali geldiği zaman = When Ali comes/came,

Ali´nin geldiği zaman = specifically when Ali came/come,

For the second form, there is a specific reference to the time when Ali comes/came. That said, you should come across with the first one most of the times.

Ali´nin geldiği zaman = (at) the time Ali came/come,

This is an adjective clause but acts as a time adverb.

 

 

Ali geldiği zaman = When Ali comes/came,

This is an adverbial clause in that you have the subject in nominative case (no suffix)

as in

Ali gelince = when Ali comes/came,

Ben gelince = when I come/came

or

Ali gelmeden önce = before Ali comes/came

Ben gelmeden önce = before I come/came,

 

etc.

53.       Abla
3642 posts
 15 Aug 2011 Mon 02:23 pm

I remembered. This thing has been bothering me for a long while now.

Part of the problem is that everything I learned until now is from the Internet. I didn´t open a single Turkish grammar book. It´s great that all these language sites are available for anyone and I respect those people who have used their time and energy to make it possible. But still the net articles often explain grammar from the practical point of view: there is a certain thing that has to be expressed and these are the means. This approach may easily miss special characteristics of Turkish grammar and make it subject to English concepts. For instance, noun clauses and adverbial clauses are both found under the headline of time even though there is much more to take into consideration.

You convinced me now that this is a matter that can be properly understood (I was doubting it). I have Geoffrey Lewis´s Turkish Grammar, second edition on my table. There is this issue and a few others that I need to brush up.

Quote:Ron L. Hubbard´s study technology

Commonly, the difficulty is ascribed to the new action, when in fact it really stems from the previous action. The person did not fully understand some part earlier and then went into confusion on the new one. This barrier to study is very pronounced in subjects involved with activity.

 



Edited (8/15/2011) by Abla

54.       si++
3785 posts
 16 Aug 2011 Tue 07:50 am

Greetings Abla,

 

I had read something similar about English grammar where they complained about the problems teaching it using Latin grammar concepts. Yes every language has different concepts sometimes and you may get confused at times when comparing those differences with your acquired knowledge of some other language.

 

You are the most serious learner around here lately. Keep going.

Sampanya liked this message
55.       Abla
3642 posts
 16 Aug 2011 Tue 12:40 pm

Oh, I know many learners here work seriously but not everyone makes a big number of him- or herself. That´s not my intention either.

56.       si++
3785 posts
 16 Aug 2011 Tue 01:01 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Oh, I know many learners here work seriously but not everyone makes a big number of him- or herself. That´s not my intention either.

 

Or let me state it this way:

You always come up with interesting and in-depth questions around here lately.

57.       Abla
3642 posts
 19 Aug 2011 Fri 03:39 pm

İyi günler!

  • Players except the goalkeeper may not use their hands or arms. The goalkeeper may play with his hands within his own penalty area (penalty areas are in front of both goals).

Kaleci dişindaki oyuncular el veya kollarıları kullanamalar. Kaleci ama kendi ceza alanında elleriyle oynayabilir. (Ceza alanları iki kale önündedir.)

  • Players may not trip or push each other (a foul).

Oyuncular birbirilere çelme takmamalı veya itmemeliler (faul).

  • Players may not hold each other or stop other players from getting the ball.

Oyuncular birbirileri bırakmayamaz veya başka oyuncuların topu almasını engelleyemezler.

  • Players who commit bad fouls get shown a yellow card. A player who commits really bad fouls, or gets shown two yellow cards in the same game, get shown a red card. If a player gets shown a red card he will be sent off the field and cannot finish playing the game. In some competitions (like the Premier League in England) you miss the next game (suspended) if you get a red card, or pick up 5 yellow cards during the season.

Ağır faullar yapan oyunculara sarı kart gösterilir. Çok ağır faullar yapan veya aynı oyunda iki sarı kart gören bir oyuncu kırmızı kart görür. Bir oyuncu, kırmızı kart görürse sahadan gönderilir ve oyunu bitiremez. Bazı yarışlarda İngilteredeki Premyer Ligası gibi kırmızı kartla cezalandırılırsan veya sezonda beş sarı kart toplarsan en yakın oyun kaybeteceksin.

  • The ball is out of play if it crosses the boundaries.

Top, çizgilerin içinden geçirirse oyun dışındadır.

  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at the side of the field, the other team gets to throw the ball back into play (a throw in).

Bir oyuncu topu taç çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, karşı takımı onu yine oyun içine atabilir (taç atışı.

  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at their end of the field, the other team kicks the ball back into play from the corner (a corner kick);

Bir oyuncu topu kendi  yarımındaki avut çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, karşı takımı ona saha köşesinden tekrar oyun içine vurur (korner vuruşu).

  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at the other end of the field, the other team kicks the ball back into play from directly in front of the goal (a goal kick);

Bir oyuncu topu karşı takımın yarımındaki avut çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, rakip takımı ona yine oyun içine hemen kalenin önünden vurur (kale vuruşu).

  • The offside rule means that there have to be at least two defenders between the attacker and the defenders´ goal when the attacker´s teammate passes the ball to him/her. One of the two defenders often is the goalkeeper.

Ofsayt kuralınla, takım arkadaşı hücum eden oyuncuya topu ayağa gezdirdiği an bu hücumcu ile savunucu kalesi arasında en az iki savunucu olmalısı kastedilir. İkisinden bir genellikle kalecidir.

  • When a player scores he is not allowed to jump into the crowd. If he does he will get a yellow card. The same applies to lifting his shirt in celebration.

Bir oyuncunun gol vurduğun sonra kalabalığa atlaması yasaktır. Bunu ederse sarı kart görecek. Aynı durum oyuncu kutlayıp gömleğini kaldırken meydana gelir.

  • Players must not abuse referees in any way verbally or physically.

Oyuncular, hakemlere herhangi sözlü olarak veya maddeye ait bir şekilde kötü davranmamalılar.

58.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Aug 2011 Fri 08:35 pm


  • Players except the goalkeeper may not use their hands or arms. The goalkeeper may play with his hands within his own penalty area (penalty areas are in front of both goals).


Kaleci dişindaki oyuncular el veya kollarıları kullanamazlar. Kaleci ama (or Ama kaleci) kendi ceza alanında elleriyle oynayabilir. (Ceza alanları iki kale önündedir.)



  • Players may not trip or push each other (a foul).


Oyuncular birbirilere çelme takmamalı veya itmemelidirler (faul).



  • Players may not hold each other or stop other players from getting the ball.


Oyuncular birbirileri bırakmayamaz tutamaz veya başka oyuncuların topu almasını engelleyemezler.



  • Players who commit bad fouls get shown a yellow card. A player who commits really bad fouls, or gets shown two yellow cards in the same game, get shown a red card. If a player gets shown a red card he will be sent off the field and cannot finish playing the game. In some competitions (like the Premier League in England) you miss the next game (suspended) if you get a red card, or pick up 5 yellow cards during the season.


Ağır fauller yapan oyunculara sarı kart gösterilir. Çok ağır fauller yapan veya aynı oyunda iki sarı kart gören bir oyuncu kırmızı kart görür. Bir oyuncu, kırmızı kart görürse sahadan gönderilir ve oyunu bitiremez. Bazı yarışlarda İngilteredeki Premiyer Ligiası gibi kırmızı kartla cezalandırılırsan veya sezonda beş sarı kart toplarsan en yakın oyun kaybeteceksin (bir sonraki oyunda oynayamazsın).



  • The ball is out of play if it crosses the boundaries.


Top, çizgilerin içinden (kenar çizgilerini) geçirirse geçerse oyun dışındadır.



  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at the side of the field, the other team gets to throw the ball back into play (a throw in).


Bir oyuncu topu taç çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, karşı takımı onu yine oyun içine atabilir / atar (taç atışı.



  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at their end of the field, the other team kicks the ball back into play from the corner (a corner kick);


Bir oyuncu topu kendi  yarımındaki avut çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, karşı takımı ona saha köşesinden tekrar oyun içine vurur (korner vuruşu).



  • If a player kicks the ball out of play at the other end of the field, the other team kicks the ball back into play from directly in front of the goal (a goal kick);


Bir oyuncu topu karşı takımın yarımındaki avut çizgisinden oyun dışına atarsa, rakip takımı ona yine oyun içine hemen kalenin önünden vurur (kale vuruşu).



  • The offside rule means that there have to be at least two defenders between the attacker and the defenders´ goal when the attacker´s teammate passes the ball to him/her. One of the two defenders often is the goalkeeper.


Ofsayt kuralınla (kuralınca/kuralına göre), takım arkadaşı hücum eden oyuncuya topu ayağa gezdirdiği pas verdiği an bu hücumcu ile savunucu (rakip) kalesi arasında en az iki savunucu olmalısı olması  kastedilir. İkisinden biri genellikle kalecidir.



  • When a player scores he is not allowed to jump into the crowd. If he does he will get a yellow card. The same applies to lifting his shirt in celebration.


Bir oyuncunun gol vurduğun attıktan sonra kalabalığa (doğru) atlaması yasaktır. Bunu ederse yaparsa sarı kart görecektir/görür. Aynı durum oyuncu kutlayıp gömleğini kaldırırken de meydana gelir (söz konusudur).



  • Players must not abuse referees in any way verbally or physically.


Oyuncular, hakemlere herhangi bir şekilde sözlü olarak veya maddeye ait fiziksel bir şekilde olarak kötü davranmamalıdırlar (müdahalede bulunmamalıdırlar).

59.       Abla
3642 posts
 19 Aug 2011 Fri 09:31 pm

si++, you´re always there. Be healthy, be good.

60.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Aug 2011 Fri 10:06 pm

 

Quoting Abla

si++, you´re always there. Be healthy, be good.

 

Thanks and the same wishes for you.

 

Cheers!

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