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Turkey cannot turn its back on democracy
(193 Messages in 20 pages - View all)
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80.       mltm
3690 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 08:02 pm

Quoting ruthless87:

People knew these facts and people voted for him knowing these facts. I don't like AKP as well but I am against a military takeover as well. So wait until the summer and vote for the people you want and make sure that they are secular if that your biggest worry. This is what happens in democratic countries.



It's not just a "democratic" country, it's also a "secular" country which can never be changed even in a democratic way.

81.       aslı
342 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 08:04 pm

armegon I had another reason to like you. Thanks for remainding those things. Some of us has fish memory. Again, democracy should protect itself, what it takes. Army just made a warning nothing further. They are pretty aware that it is not 80 anymore. Democracy for everyone.

82.       ruthless87
38 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 08:31 pm

Quoting aslı:

armegon I had another reason to like you. Thanks for remainding those things. Some of us has fish memory. Again, democracy should protect itself, what it takes. Army just made a warning nothing further. They are pretty aware that it is not 80 anymore. Democracy for everyone.


I was wondering who controls the army and who chooses all the generals?

83.       CANLI
5084 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 09:32 pm

Quoting ruthless87:


I was wondering who controls the army and who chooses all the generals?


+100000
Exactly,no way it would be the government !
As if the Army is an independent Organization been ruled by the army itself!
So who is in charge ?!

84.       erdinc
2151 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 09:35 pm

Our Supreme Court has ruled that the first round of prime minister elections are invalid.
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/406777.asp

What this means is that Islamic politician Abdullah Gül won't become the new president.

The presidency is a critical place for Islamic politicians because it has the power to assign supreme court members and university presidents.

Islamic politics is very easy to understand. This is what they want to do step by step:

1. Critical administrative units will be occupied by Islamic rooted people. (this has already happened in most areas. Imams are in charge on top positions of eduactional departments or healt departments or even on fire department. Everywhere you see them. These days you can't even become a headteacher in any local school in Turkia if you are not close to Islamic politics).

2. headscarf will be allowed at universities for students. That will be the breaking point if it happens.

3. headscarf will be allowed for lecturers at universities

4. headscarf will be allowed for teachers at public schools

5. headscarf will be allowed at secondary schools for students

6. headscarf will be allowed at primary schools for students. Imagine even one generation (10 years) kids growing with the religious education, all brain washed.

A few years ago I was a teacher in a school in Ankara and there comes this new maths teacher into the teachers room wearing a headscarf. We were all shocked and told her that she can't go into the classroom like that. She become mad and said she was a ring of a chain and would fight for their ideas and didn't care for the rules not even for the constitution. Off course she was reported and dismissed from the job.

7. weekend days will be changed to friday and saturday so it will include the holy friday.

8. Working hours will be changed according praying times.

9. Number of prayer rooms (mescit) will increase in official departments.

10. Islamic marriage (imam nikahı ) will become legal and equal to official marriage.

11. Polygamy will become legal. Already many of the AK party members have multiple wives.

12. Alcohol will be banned.

13. Wearing swimsuits will be banned for females.

14. Islamic police department will be established.

Edit:
I forgot to mention what would happen if the Islamists would get the presidency. The president has the power to assign presidents of all state universities and members of our central higher education administration. So everthing would be set to allow headscarf in universities.

85.       azade
1606 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 09:40 pm

What is your source erdinc? Is it something they have proclaimed or otherwise announced?

86.       Isthar
19 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 09:54 pm


In addition to..
Most important thing, A.Gül made a secret deal with Colin Powell on April 2th 2003. He had told about to Sedat Sertoğlu who journalist of Vatan newspaper..who was C.Powell..he was foreign ministry of USA..

" A.Gül bu gizli anlaşmanın yapılmasından bir buçuk ay sonra Vatan gazetesi yazarı Sedat Sertoğlu’na yaptığı açıklamada şunları söylemiştir:
“Ben bu gezileri yapmadan önce şimdi senin oturduğun koltukta (eliyle koltuğu vurdu) ABD Dışişleri Bakanı Powell oturuyordu. Onunla 2 sayfalık 9 maddelik bir plan üzerinde anlaştık. Ama ben her yaptığımı kalkıp açıklayamam ki…Powell Suriye’ye giderken de benimle konuştu. Gizli olan bir sürü gelişme var”.
Abdullah Gül bu görüşmede Irak’ı işgalini desteklemekte ve aralarında ülkemizin de bulunduğu “Ortadoğu’daki bütün rejimlerin değişeceğini” söylemektedir.

87.       CANLI
5084 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 09:54 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Off course she was reported and dismissed from the job.


You really hate veiled women !

Omg,do you see that justice ?!
To bane her for what she chose to wear ?!

People are FREE,free to have their own ideas,to do what they want,free to wear what they want.

people've been borne free,why chaining them ?!

İf they want to cover up and walk in the streets,let them,if they want to walk naked,then let them too!

Ohh God and you argue about secularism ?!

You afraid that an İslamic governmet rules people accourding to their believes,but you want to rule people accourding to your believes too.

You afraid İslamic government will bane women who not wearing Hijab and force them,and you bane women who wear Hijab and force them the other way,to take it off!

İ dont understand the logic!

Both are same to me,but in opposite directions,and both are taking women freedom away !

Pity

88.       erdinc
2151 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 10:05 pm

Here is my source for imam supervisor on eduactional department: http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=60233

Here is my source for imam supervisor on hospital:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/4851097.asp?m=1&gid=69&srid=3041&oid=4

This newspaper article mentions the planned ban on alcohol:
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2005/12/30/siyaset/axsiy02.html

Here is an article that mentions a moscue advertising their marriage office:
http://www.bianet.org/2006/08/24/84113.htm

I could go on for ages. The thing is that with their actions they are alowing radicals to spread and they encourage radicalism. They are just hiding right now but they have many times said things like changing secularism to a new system.

Ömer Dinçer, undersecretary of the prime ministry said that the republic and secularism should give way for Islamic coalescence. The high court ruled that his views were agains the constitution. Source:
http://www.hukuki.net/haber/index.asp?id=601

89.       Elisa
0 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 10:07 pm

Quoting CANLI:

İf they want to cover up and walk in the streets,let them,if they want to walk naked,then let them too!



The thing is, a democratic secular government might not mingle with people showing their religious preferences, but an islamic government will do so, and will never allow people to show too much skin for example, let alone to walk naked,..
Your example is utopic Canlı.. :-S

90.       Elisa
0 posts
 01 May 2007 Tue 10:16 pm

Quoting azade:

What is your source erdinc? Is it something they have proclaimed or otherwise announced?



Do you really need a source? My simple horse sense tells me that those things could be a logical consequence of having an islamist government?

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