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Thread: T-E

6561.       tunci
7149 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 07:51 pm

 

Quoting smaragda

bu gün bir şeyi tekrardan oğrendim sağolun arkadaşlar deveyi dikenmiş insanıda öpen miş imam pırtalınca cemmat ne yapsın

 

Bugün bir şeyi tekrardan öğrendim

I learnt something again today.

Sağolun arkadaşlar

Thank you friends

deveyi dikenmiş insanı da öpenmiş (this is a slong saying,The person changed its words abit,its original is very rude, it consists swearing word. so i am not telling its original whole saying" but what it mean is, You help and being nice to people but in reply you get bad things,bad thoughts and ungratefulness from them. So those people dont appreciate what you have done for them. When you are bad and nasty to those people then you get appreciation and gratefulness from them. Its debatable, I am not agree with the meaning of the saying but some people think that way.

imam pırtalınca cemmat ne yapsın ( There is not such a word called " pırtalınca " in Turkish, so that makes whole sentence nonsense ) imam= muslim preacher, cemaat =congregation (religious community ) , cemaat ne yapsın = what should the congregation do.

The first verb "pırtalınca" has been replaced with another verb which is slang as its original is different. Again, this is a rude saying, I prefer not to mention its original.

what this saying mean is " If the leaders ( or people in power ) do bad things and are bad example to people who are following them then what shall the people who are following them to do ? In other words, If the leaders act badly then normal people act worse. Therefore leaders must be good example to society and other for their followers, cus they are doing what their leaders do. So leaders have to be very careful on their acts and words to not to lead people in bad direction.

 

 

 

 

 



Thread: Turkey to honor fallen soldiers on 96th anniversary of Battle of Gallipoli

6562.       tunci
7149 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 01:31 pm

   ATATURK ADRESSES TO MOTHERS WHO LOST THEIR SONS IN ÇANAKKALE WAR

 

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives (at Gallipoli battles)..

You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.

 Therefore rest in peace.

 There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours..

You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears.

Your sons are now living in our bosom and are in peace.

Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

 



Thread: Turkey to honor fallen soldiers on 96th anniversary of Battle of Gallipoli

6563.       tunci
7149 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 12:41 pm

Turkey to honor fallen soldiers on 96th anniversary of Battle of Gallipoli



Thread: Eng to Turk please

6564.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 10:42 pm

 

Birşey değil.



Thread: Eng to Turk please

6565.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 10:32 pm

 

Quoting Suzie

Thanks so much for your kind offer but they have already booked a hotel.  They got a really good package deal.

 

 Nazik teklifin için çok teşekkür ederim ama oteli tuttular bile. Gerçekten iyi bir fiyata tuttular.

 

 



Thread: turk to eng thanks

6566.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 10:13 pm

 

Quoting Suzie

Annen ve baban benim evimde kalabilir belek veya serik fark etmez otele para ödemelerine gerek yok herkeze selam

 

Your mother and father can stay at my house. Belek or Serik it doesn´t matter. They don´t have to pay for a hotel (to stay ), Greetings to you all..

 

 

 



Thread: Turk to Eng thanks in advance

6567.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 09:27 pm

 

Quoting Suzie

Kaçgün belektesin istanbula gidicem senin tatiline göre pılan yapman gerekiyo

 

 First, lets get your turkish sentence right.

1-Kaç gün Belek´tesin ? İstanbul´a gideceğim. Senin tatiline göre plan yapman gerekiyor.

2-Kaç gün Belek´tesin ? İstanbul´a gideceğim. Senin tatiline göre plan yapmam gerekiyor.

if it is the first one then ;

" For how long are you in Belek? I will go to Istanbul. You need to make a plan according to your holiday (schedule).

if it is the second one then ;

" For how long are you in Belek ? I will go to Istabul. I need to make a plan according to your holiday (shedule ).

 

 

 

 



Thread: English Words with two Turkish meanings

6568.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 09:17 pm

 

Quoting Donkeyoaty

Thanks for the interesting responses.

I still don´t follow the "This is her picture" ..... "Onun resmidir" why has it dropped an i.

I would have expected it to be "Onun resimidir" ?

 

 

Some Turkish nouns lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.
As an example: izin - leave, time off - becomes izn-im [NOT izin-im] - my leave (ie the final vowel of the noun root is dropped when adding a suffix which begins in a vowel.

Adding a vowel does affect the Noun
iznim - my leave - iznimden - [izn-im-den] - since my time off..
The Final Vowel in the noun is lost when adding -im - my.. suffix (which begins with a vowel)

Adding a consonant does NOT affect the Noun
izindeyim
- [izin-de-yim] - I am on leave..
Here the vowel of izin is not lost as the first suffix -de begins with a consonant

Some Examples of Possessive Adjectives being added

fikrimiz - our idea - from fikir
keyfi - his/her joy - from keyif
oğlum - my son - from oğul
boynu - his neck - from boyun
nakli - his transport - from nakil
ahdi - his promise - from ahit
In the last two examples above that the final consonant -t has Mutated to its soft form -d.


kaybı - his loss - from - kayıp also undergoes a softening of the consonant -p to -b.
We can thus see that the rules of Consonant Mutation are still observed in the reduced form of the noun. There are some words in this list which do not soften their root vowel as they may be considered (a) Single Syllable Words or (b) Foreign Word Imports. As an example we cite: vakit (arb.) - time, occasion - which becomes - vaktim - my time

Some Examples of Case Suffixes being added

Mehmet filmi seyretmiş - It seems Mehmet watched the film - (film-i)
Here the Direct Object suffix -i affects the noun - filim - film
Ali´nin alnı terliyor - Ali´s forehead is sweating - (Ali´nin aln-ı
Here the word - forehead - is in the Possessive Relationship which affects the noun - alın - shortening it to aln-.

Onun resmini beğendim -  I like his-her picture. resim--> i drops, resmi +ni

Note: That if we add a suffix which begins with a consonant, then the root word retains its basic form:
ağızda - in the mouth
beyinden - from the brain
kayıptan - from the loss
But of course the root word is shortened (apocopated) as stated above, if the first added suffix begins with a vowel:
ağzında - [ağz-ı-nda] - in his mouth
beynimden - [beyn-im-den] - from my brain
kaybımızdan - [kayb-ımız-dan] - from our loss

 

 



Edited (3/18/2011) by tunci



Thread: what do they mean

6569.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 05:48 pm

 

Quoting deli

Someone called me yildiz ay today what do they mean

 

 Yıldız means "star" , Ay means = moon

So that would be Star moon. I dont know what that person´s intention by calling you Star moon, but what I know is  "Yıldız" is a female name in turkish. There is no name only " Ay "

If we just say  " Yıldızay  " could be used as surname as one word. So these are the possiblities. There is not a special meaning to call someone "Yıldız ay". 

That person might wanted to give you a turkish name as " Yıldız " , or as surname " Yıldızay"

 



Thread: Ottoman Georgians: A noble history marked by grand viziers and sultans’ mothers

6570.       tunci
7149 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 06:27 am

Ottoman Georgians: A noble history marked by grand viziers and sultans’ mothers

18 March 2011, Friday / MESUT ÇEVİKALP, İSTANBUL

1) Ali Haydar Efendi reading a jihad fatwa in Fatih, İstanbul in 1914. 2) Ali Saip Paşa 3) A map of Caucasia 4) Koca Yusuf Paşa 5) Batum Aziziye Camii and its religious scholars 6) Scholar Ali Haydar Efendi, 7) Author of “Osmanlı Gürcüleri” (Ottoman Georgians), Murat Kasap

Did you know that 17 of the Ottoman grand viziers were Georgian? Were you aware of the many Georgian viziers and the hundreds of Georgian pashas who served the Ottoman Empire?
 

Have you ever heard the names of Cevri Kalfa or Dindine Hanım, the former who saved Selim III from the hands of a deadly uprising, and the latter who led the Ottomans to defeat the Russian military during the Crimean War? Known as the ‘Kavm-i Necib´ (noble-blooded peoples) of the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Georgians were also known for their courageousness and their love of the nation. These days, the Ottoman Georgians who so faithfully served in so many positions in the Ottoman Empire for seven centuries in a row are literally rewriting their names on the pages of history. The lives of historical figures such as Grand Vizier Mehmet Sait Paşa, Sheikh-ul Islam Mirza Mustafa Efendi, Prince Sabahattin, and

 

scholar Ali Haydar Efendi are all being revived for readers interested in learning more about their biographies.

Historian Murat Kasap´s book, “Osmanlı Gürcüleri” (Ottoman Georgians) brings the contributions of 1,200 Georgians who held positions of varying importance over many centuries of the Ottoman Empire to the modern day. Some of the historical figures covered in this book are those of the Georgian “valide sultans,” or the mother of reigning sultans, such as Mihr-î-Şah Valide Sultan. These were women who brought up the men who would become sultans in the empire. The book also touches on the lives of Georgians, such as pioneering writer-poet and skilled musician Hüseyin Sadeddin Arel. This 480-page book was published by the Friends of Georgia International Foundation and really does manage to bring to light some of the Georgian Ottomans whose lives and stories have remained hidden until now. The first 1,000 printings of this book were sold out long ago, and so the second printing and the Georgian language version are expected on the market very soon.

Historian Murat Kasap (34) devoted three years of his life to this book. His detailed and painstaking research brought him not only to the Prime Ministerial Ottoman Archives, but also to the İstanbul Müftü´s Series and Records Archives. In the process, Kasap went through nearly every chronicle and biography he could find, in the end making his way through around 50,000 documents, most of which were written in Ottoman Turkish. In addition to the many biographies included in this book, readers are treated to Kasap´s own writings on Georgian history, the process of Georgians´ conversions to Islam and an all-encompassing view on Turkish-Georgian relations.

A project sparked by curiosity

We asked Kasap about what it was that pushed him towards this seemingly self-sacrificing task. The answer was a single word: curiosity. Kasap graduated in 2001 from İstanbul University´s history department and his personal compulsion towards history pushed him first to research his family´s history, and then the histories of his close friends´ families. Trying to trace the roots of his immigrant family, he delved into archives which wound up leading him to the Ottoman Georgians. He explains: “I began this research into [my] roots as a hobby, actually. But as the research went on, my curiosity was more and more awakened. When my research into my family´s roots was finished, I began getting more and more curious about the lives of Georgians who lived here during the Ottoman era. What I really wanted to do was reveal the contributions of my ancestors to the creation of Ottoman civilization. And so, this job I began as a hobby transformed into my real work. And as for the book ‘Ottoman Georgians,´ it is the fruit of that period of labor.”

Kasap, whose mother is Turkish and father is Georgian, had another motivating factor pushing him to write this book: to remind people of the forgotten friendship between Turks and Georgians. When you consider that the relations between these two peoples goes all the way back to the Selçuk era, it becomes even clearer just what an important task has been undertaken by Kasap. He says: “I set out wanting to contribute to the noble history of Turkish-Georgian friendship and to remind people of the forgotten historical relations between these two peoples. To wit, Georgians had been appointed to very important posts in the Ottoman Empire from the 16th century onwards. They were in positions such as grand vizier, or sometimes sheikh-ul Islam. And since the Ottomans promoted the coexistence of different peoples of different identities in the same community, the Georgians supported this empire with all their might.”

Here is how Kasap explains why it is that Georgians were identified in Ottoman Turkish as the “Kavm-i Necib” and why they were perceived without exception as being great patriots: “In his work ‘Tarih-Cevdet´ (History by Cevdet), Ahmet Cevdet Paşa talks about a certain Georgian commander, noting ‘He was appointed to the rank of pasha, with his Georgian ethnicity counted as proof of his love of nation.´ In the Ottoman era, being Georgian was viewed as the same thing as being a patriot. In addition to this, Georgians were called ‘Kavm-i Necib´ [the noble race]. They were seen as very clean-hearted people. Evliya Çelebi traveled all over Georgia and wrote about what he saw. In his writings he also uses the term ‘Kavm-i Necib´ to describe Georgians. It was later that this term really settled in Ottoman Turkish. In fact, Georgians even began using it with each other.”

On further perusal of this book, it is clear that the Georgians were very generous when it came to donations and financial contributions. In particular, foundations formed by some of the Georgian mothers of pashas (such as Mihr-î-Şah Valide Sultan and Bezm-i Âlem Valide Sultan) stand out. There is much space devoted in this book to the biographies of four mothers of reigning sultans and the charities they established and left behind as legacies. In fact, Murat Kasap provides a literal inventory of the libraries, bridges, mosques, madrasas, schools, fountains and hospitals built by Georgians living in the Ottoman Empire at the time.

He explains: “Ottoman Georgians lived with the idea of serving the state. They were not involved in secretive plans and they did not try to come by certain political power for their own gain. Even when they were involved in politics, they didn’t actually engage in active politicking. They were really more focused on service. For example, one of the oldest Georgian works I could find was the 15th century Georgian Hussein Bridge in Sivas. And then there is the Büyük İskele Mosque in Eyüp Sultan, built by Georgian Hajj Mahmut Ağa in 1567. And the Vakıf Gureba Hospital that was established by the Georgian mother of a reigning sultan known for her charitable works, Bezm-i Âlem Valide Sultan, and is still standing today.”

The Ottomans were able to accurately interpret the characteristics of Georgians and were able to benefit from them in the most effective way possible. Their courage, daring and tremendous loyalty often pushed them toward careers in the military, where they often held critical posts. Kasap touches on how important the Georgian factor was on the Caucasian front against the Russians: “Caucasian peoples are known for their predisposition to using firearms as well as their skills in battle. There are many Georgian pashas about whom their skills in these areas, as well as their courageousness and bravery, were much talked of. In the 16th and 17th centuries, Georgians were very much in the forefront as statesmen and soldiers. But when the 19th century arrived, we start seeing Georgians as religious scholars and learned men. One reason for this was that in those years, Georgians would send their children to İstanbul to receive religious education in order to stand up against the Christianizing efforts of the Russians.”

Religious scholar Ali Haydar Efendi

Among the great Georgian religious scholars discussed in this book is Ali Haydar Efendi. Born in 1870 in the town of Ahıska near Batumi, Ali Haydar Efendi was one of the most important scholars of the era. His first schooling was in Ahıska, after which Ali Haydar Efendi went to Erzurum, where he studied at the Bakırcılar Madrasa. He began in 1902 to teach lessons at İstanbul’s Fatih Mosque and carried on with his scholarly services to the Muslim community until his death in 1960. In the process, he trained thousands of students. Kasap had the chance to meet with Ali Haydar Bey’s grandson while writing the scholar’s biography and used the opportunity to obtain more information about the family’s Georgian roots. “They know that Ali Haydar Bey came from Ahıska and that he saw himself as Georgian. Ali Haydar Efendi’s wife also spoke Georgian. One of his students, Mahmut Ustaosmanoğlu Efendi, would say, ‘I love Georgians, my teacher was a Georgian’.”

Kasap also tries to challenge the allegations that Turks forced Islam on the Georgians. He says: “The Russians purposefully spread the idea that ‘the Ottomans forced the Georgians to become Muslim.’ But this was not true. In fact, the Georgians were very easy in their embrace of Islam. Of course, the resemblance between these two cultures was influential in this. In just a short time, they begin having more contact with other ethnic groups, and then they produced a commendable number of scholars as well as building all sorts of mosques and madrasas. There are even Georgian sheikhs-ul Islam who emerge. So the allegations that the Georgians were forced to become Muslim are not true. When the Georgian version of this book is finally published, it will strike a blow to Russian propaganda on this matter.”

Kasap, who is currently working on a new book about the Batum Muhacirleri (Batumi immigrants), thinks his written works will contribute significantly to Turkish-Georgian friendship. He notes that recent improvements in relations between Turkey and Georgia and the elimination of certain border restrictions are also strengthening this friendship. He says: “I have toured all over Georgia. You can still find Turkish traditions and cultural customs in Georgian villages. The narrowing gap in relations between the two countries, as well as the opened borders, and the reciprocal visits made by Turks and Georgians to each other’s lands are all working to break down the Russian influence.”

There are all sorts of interesting anecdotes included in this book, in addition to the historical photographs and maps. Here are two of the anecdotes:

The Georgian kalfa (headworker) who saved the royal household

Protestors who stormed the Ottoman palace in 1808 and killed Sultan Selim III also wanted to kill Sultan Mahmut II. The prince was saved from the hands of the protestors by one of the women of the palace, Georgian Cevri Kalfa. She first hid him in her room, and then used her own body to shield him from the shooting protestors. She used ashes from a fire to try and distance the angry protestors from her room. At that point two other palace officials, Anber and Isa Ağa, came to her assistance, rescuing the prince from the palace. Mahmut II received a knife wound to his arm, but at least he lived. When Mahmud II becomes sultan, he appointed Georgian Cevri Kalf as “hazinedarbaşı” (an office on par with that of being a vizier), and she stayed on for good. In a sense, Cevri Hanım ensured the survival of the royal dynasty by saving the life of Sultan Mahmud II. When Cevri Hanım died, in 1819, Mahmud II had her buried alongside the grave of his mother and ordered a fountain and a primary school built in her name.

Dindine Hanım fights the Russians

The Georgian Ottomans fought on the front lines of the three-year Crimean War, which broke out in 1853 in line with the traditional Russian politics of heading southward. One event that took place during this war shows just how devoted to the Ottomans the Georgians were: One of the patriots firing from horseback at the Russians was Dindine Hanım from the Tavdgiridze family. Fatma Dindine Hanım lost her son as well as her step-son in the same battle during this war, but despite growing Russian attacks on the front lines she remained steadfast in her own presence on the battlefield. In fact, while some Georgian fighters began pulling back at one point, Dindine Hanım drew her sword and headed full speed towards the oncoming forces. Seeing this, the Georgians who had started withdrawing decided to return to the front lines. The Georgians would not give ground to the Russians in this battle and wound up successfully protecting Ottoman borders. News of Dindine Hanım’s courage made it to İstanbul, and the sultan himself rewarded this brave woman. Later, two other sons of Dindine Hanım, Osman Bey and Ali Bey, wound up rising to the level of pasha in the Ottoman Empire.

Who is included in this book?

The books includes: 17 grand viziers, nine Janissaries, six sea captains, 13 ministers of state, 173 viziers, a military commander, a beylerbeyi (an Ottoman grand governor), a governor, a sancakbeyi (the head of a sancak or county), 13 government deputies, six sheikhs-ul Islam, 344 religious scholars, 34 poets, writers and painters, 488 palace and state officials, and 23 mothers of pashas and princes’ wives.

NOTE : In Ottoman history, there were great administrators from different nationalities serving, One of them were Georgians, It looks like an interesting book.

 

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