sorry if i really hurt you,but i just trying to talk realities of life,and my mean wasn't you in personal,my mean was the contradictions of democracy and the countries who thinks theirself more democratical then others,pls forgive me if i upset you by don't be aware of that

its easy to see who is turkish and who is not turkish. And azade please try not talk about the things that you dont know such as orhan pamuk.

You can talk about France and the country who is talking about "thinking / speaking / writing freely"(France) and the countries who say " if you dont accept armenian genocide / if you deny armenian genocide / if you say somthing against armenian genocide / if you write something against armanian genocide you ll go to jail "(yes its also France and yes France has article 301) and think about the countries - sometimes why they dont take each other serious - ..and dont forget that if there is a problem between armania and Turkey its between armenia and Turkey.. there is no France or America or any other country. And if you dont know anything about this you cant say "Turkey is guilty."

Same for iraq. if there is a problem there. iraqian people can solve it. if you're fighting with your boy friend.. would you solve it yourself or would you wait for me to kill him ?

by the way i dont have any problem with France. just want to show you something if you can understand.

I like this forum, now we are talking! But I thought we are not supposed to talk political stuff here?! Anyways, my best friend is turkish living in the US like 8 years. I know he like i've noticed most Turks Love Attaturk. And to say anything bad is really serious. I also find amusing how he becomes shocked whenever an american Attacks President Bush. I see in this forum people defending this law in turkey which is supposed to preserve the state, which for me as an american find it would do the opposite. Free speech allows a government to correct itself. These last few years many around the world have been witness to a kind of fall of american prestige, but free speech will however adjust the government and turn its policies back on to a proper track.

:"Dertini söylemeyen saklayan derman bulamaz"
:"Those who cant hide or tell the problem ,cant find a remedy"

Wow what an argumentative forum!
People are entitled to an opinion whether they no little or alot about the situation they are talking about!

God this is how we learn and make our beliefs stonger is it not?! If we believe in something then what gives people the right to tell us not to and tell us how and what to believe in?
Are we forgetting how some of the most beautiful religions came alive into our hearts? Islam as one of the most best examples, was it not for the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) who stuck by Allah in believing in Islam not matter what how he was threatened?

You may think im changing the subject but im not (and if I was it would be a TC tradition anyhow ) im just saying give people the freedom to have there views, opinions and beliefs.

Peace to all

Every democratic government cannot be run the way the United States of America is run. Consider statements against Ataturk akin to flag burning in the United States. How many wasted hours have been spent in US Congress debating whether flag burning should be protected by freedom of speech. Most US politicians would pass this ban if they could.

Anyway...unless you are familiar enough with Turkey's history and delicate balance of secularism, democracy, and basically military oversight in a Islamic country, do not criticize the way its own form of democracy runs.
Everyone should worry about the politics of their own country and not be critical of others.

"I dont ask you to fight today, I ask you to die today..."

KeithL, thank you, you brought up a great point. We are sort of judging them by our own standards which of course came a long way to its current form and are based on completely different foundations. There's no way Turkey can or even should be the same way as the US or EU. Judging Turkey isn't appropriate or right, however, comments or criticism is ok I think. They don't have to be different, but maybe they'd like to hear what we think? (at least some of them ). After all they want to be part of the EU and for that some standards that are important to a democratic foundation have to be satisfied, otherwise, EU wouldn't care about Turkish laws.