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The Issue of the Veil
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| 70. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 12:39 am |
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Actually what I find most annoying about the whole veil thing is that people make such an issue about it. What is the big deal. Why speculate on it?
The Western missionaries went to the Pacific Islands and covered all the natives up in neck to ankle MuuMus. Now the same Westerners (metaphorically speaking)  want to remove the veil from Eastern women.
Argh....get over it and let people be.
"The missionaries and Hawaiians had different motives for covering the body. The main motive of the missionaries was to cover nakedness and uphold the western social conventions of modesty and propriety. According to the missionaries, the Hawaiians used clothing primarily to display status, "rather than as a covering for their deformity" (Missionary Herald, 1832:222). While covering nakedness was essential to the missionaries, Hawaiians considered dress to be optional, depending on rank and the social occasion (Missionary Herald, 1832; Thurston, 1882). "
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| 71. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 05:22 am |
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Quoting alameda: Actually catwoman, men have two heads One they have some control over, the other they have very minimal control over. |
I find this to be very sexist and offensive. It implies that men are less then human in some way, that they have some primitive animal reflexes completely beyond their control.
It is a very crude idea - not very sophisticated, completely lacking any knowledge of human behavioral patterns and completely false on a factual level. Alameda, even Neanderthals were more dependent on learning then on instinctual, reflexive reactions. Almost all grown up men will even argue against this and many will find it offensive.
Not only there are individual examples of men who prove you wrong but also of social groups, and even cultures. I don´t even want to get into this, because it feels like proving the law of gravity.
Oh, and as I said before - if men indeed are unable to fit into the modern society because of their biology, they need to be treated accordingly. Since in modern society, it is unacceptable to rape or sexually abuse another person in any way [and the Islamic defense of burka/hijab boils down to the issues of rape and the issue of responsibility for it] and if we assume, as you suggested, that men are unable to assume responsibility for their behavior, then we need to protect basic rights of women from such animal predators - by locking them up, separating them from the society, since they pose danger, castrating them... etc. If indeed your point of view is correct, then the society has a major responsibility to protect normal individuals from these inhumane predators.
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| 72. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 05:34 am |
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Quoting alameda: Actually what I find most annoying about the whole veil thing is that people make such an issue about it. What is the big deal. Why speculate on it?
The Western missionaries went to the Pacific Islands and covered all the natives up in neck to ankle MuuMus. Now the same Westerners (metaphorically speaking) want to remove the veil from Eastern women.
Argh....get over it and let people be. |
First of all - the issue is one of ´gender apartheid´, since everybody knows how women are treated in islamic countries. Also, when the defense of the veil is as crude as "men are incapable of not raping a woman when they see a piece of her hair", then obviously, to a rational person, it is an urgent issue of debate. And of course, there are some Muslim women who would disagree with you about ´why the fuss´, because they experience directly the repercussions of "the issue of the veil", some of which may be even death. I find it to be quite outraging that you gloss over these issues, when you know that human rights violations are behind them. If the Islamic world will "let people be", then there will be no need for an urgent debate.
Secondly, I am tired of this irresponsible argument "Christians did this, so stop pointing out the violations committed by Muslims". This is again, a childish and ridiculous argument. Please, don´t say this again, I believe we can move on in this conversation to the next level.
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| 73. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 05:34 pm |
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we can understand you totally that you defending woman rights and you against to all sort pressures to women dear cat,but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will???
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| 74. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 05:55 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: we can understand you totally that you defending woman rights and you against to all sort pressures to women dear cat,but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will??? |
+1
From what i live,they actually not few MrX 
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| 75. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:01 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting MrX67: we can understand you totally that you defending woman rights and you against to all sort pressures to women dear cat,but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will??? |
+1
From what i live,they actually not few MrX |
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| 76. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:11 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting CANLI: Quoting MrX67: we can understand you totally that you defending woman rights and you against to all sort pressures to women dear cat,but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will??? |
+1
From what i live,they actually not few MrX |
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Hahaha MrX, you and Canli are YET AGAIN coming up with the same old tired crappy reasons why women should cover themselves for the benefit of men, but when Cat or give our opinions you again describe us as radical feminists or we are accused of repeating the same things again and again.
Why is your opinion more important?
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| 77. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:13 pm |
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Quoting AEnigmamagnadea: Quoting MrX67: Quoting CANLI: Quoting MrX67: we can understand you totally that you defending woman rights and you against to all sort pressures to women dear cat,but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will??? |
+1
From what i live,they actually not few MrX |
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Hahaha MrX, you and Canli are YET AGAIN coming up with the same old tired crappy reasons why women should cover themselves for the benefit of men, but when Cat or give our opinions you again describe us as radical feminists or we are accused of repeating the same things again and again.
Why is your opinion more important?
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| 78. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:14 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: but pls try to look at this topic as a woman right to,even a few women using it with their free will??? |
Lemmings jump off cliff edges with free will - does that make it a good idea?  
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| 79. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:16 pm |
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People cut their bodies with knives using "free will" - is it right also?
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| 80. |
23 Jul 2008 Wed 06:20 pm |
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Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:
Hahaha MrX, you and Canli are YET AGAIN coming up with the same old tired crappy reasons why women should cover themselves for the benefit of men, but when Cat or give our opinions you again describe us as radical feminists or we are accused of repeating the same things again and again.
Why is your opinion more important? |
Well,i dont appreciate really calling our ´my´ reason for putting on MY hijab crappy
And i dont do it for the benefir of men,if you read our old debats,or this one too you will know why
So stating the reason AGAİN is worthless !
And maybe my opinion is more important because im actually one of those women you are talking about ?!
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