I am yet to see any of your grey tones. You say the US is not trying to create wars, just check out how many of the wars currently being fought have the US as one of the sides. The US is the most warlike nation in the world. It has the largest military budget and it is never tired of reinforcing its arsenal. The US is so much involved in expensive military campaigns, countless international military bases etc. that it has become economically difficult to maintain them. What else do you expect them to do; invade Europe maybe?

Can it be possible that their grandfathers all had a stopover in Ottoman land, before they ever saw the New World?

Well

There is either foriegn involvement or there is not.

If you ask these people to show any proof of about foreign involvement, they wont be able to show any!!

There is no credible evidence none what so ever eu or usa are supporting them actively.. If there was one it could have been an declaration of a war...

what is there? Just romurs that have been invented by the some people ..
As far as I know ONCE there were a few Greek army officials pictured once and they belong to Greeks deep state..And then they were finished by the Greeks!! -we are trying to do the same with Ergenekon case btw-
Anybody has NOT SHOWN any proof of foreign agency involvements!!!! If people think there are, people should PROVE that.. Any document will be appreciated for this purpose
It is just one of these paranoid ´Turks being feared and nobody wants Turks strong; everybody against us´ type imaginary theories..
Fairy tales.. It makes us feel better and important..
But that is all..
That is what Kenan Evren, our beloved dictator, told us all those years!!(He also said that to us ´there are no Kurds in Turkey´ )

When you look at into history with Kurds, almost all of them being accused with having orders from foreigners.. Almost all of them from seyh Sait to Dersim incidents..

But later on, thruth cames out. 

Also 2 years ago we discussed this here:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_31016

I can´t resist it anymore, welcome to the kindergarten. We are expected to present proofs of  our suspicion about an Israeli involvement as politicians, military and the secret services are still in the thick of it.

A suspicion is a suspicion. There are the tell-tale signs of of it:

1- After the bloody Blue Marmara attack in the international waters, the Israeli government rejected to apoligize and demanded an apology instead.

2- In the time between Erdogan-Perez tension and the flotilla attack, the Israeli government took a series of actions to punish Turkey internationally, these include:

- The meeting crisis: The Turkish minister was seated in a low chair and pictured as the Israeli minister was overlooking him in a despising manner. A childish act of scorning.

- The Israeli government left its traditional stance of siding with Turkey regarding Armenia and began backing Armenians which facilitated the lobby activities for Armenia and result began coming in. In other words, Israel opinion about whether the Armenian massacre really happened or not depends solely on its relations with Turkey.

-Whenever Ghazza blockade was brought up by Turkey, Israel insistingly pointed out to the conflict between the Kurds and Turks naming Turkey as the last nation to teach Israel a lesson.

-The Israeli government advised its people against travelling to Turkey and a number of Turkish companies in Israel faced loss of business and legal actions were taken against them to terminate their contracts on account that Turkey is no longer a reliable partner.

And in the aftermath of the flotilla crisis, terror incidents increased several folds. Whereas only a couple of months ago people were talking about a new initiative, terrorists were asked to return their homes. Somebody pulled the trigger and we begin losing tens of people in one go. Without planning and provision of capable arms how could the PKK achieve this?

In recent days Europe has been witnessing operations made against the PKK. The chain of anti-PKK operations started in Italy and then spread to France, Germany and Belgium. 

Following these operations against the PKK camps, a French member of the European Parliament made striking statements about the PKK camps in France.

The French Policemen Knew the Presence of the Camp

Concerning the PKK camps in the Larzac region of southern France, Joseph (José Bové said that the French police and security teams were aware of the presence of the camps there. 

The PKK terrorist camp in the Larzac region of France has been active for 15 years. The camp trains many PKK militants and is located in one of the biggest farms of the region. 

José Bové Attended to a PKK Meeting...

By Gamze Coskun (JTW)

For full text please visit

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/99777/french-mp-jose-bove-declares-his-visit-to-larzac-pkk-camp.html

.

Amid the growing outrage over an Israeli attack on civilian ships in international waters that killed nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists and wounded dozens last week, there is deepening suspicion about the possible Israeli involvement in the killing of seven soldiers in a terrorist rocket attack on a naval base in İskenderun, in the southern province of Hatay.

Turkish intelligence organizations are looking into possible connections between the two incidents that occurred on the same day only hours apart. The terrorist act was carried out by the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), an outlawed organization that has been listed as terrorist group both in Turkey and in much of the international community. Analysts claim Israeli secret services may have contracted the job to the PKK to send a message to the Turkish government.

Sedat Laçiner, head of the Ankara-based International Strategic Research Organization (USAK), told Sunday’s Zaman that there are some groups in Israel actively working with the PKK using its Iranian wing, the Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan (PJAK), which has been waging a war in western Iran. He said the link is more than a simple conspiracy theory, it’s a substantiated one as some members of Mossad and retired Israeli military officers were spotted training Kurdish fighters in the northern Iraqi Kurdish region...

For full text please visit;

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-212267-suspicion-growing-about-possible-link-between-pkk-and-israel.html

 There were enough Sepheric Jews that went to Morroco, Egypt, Bulgaria and Greece....

The PKK is just the nippers of secret services. 

They do not represent innocent Kurds.

If they were working for Kurds sakes, they would not increase their attacks when Turkey announces and implements an initiative towards Kurdish people.

The PKK harms the Kurds most. The initiative began in a relatively peaceful environment but PKK and their owners painted the lands with blood after the initiative and simultanously with flotilla attack, Iran votings etc.

This is the last flutter of PKK. All times in the world history, bloody conflicts took place before the solution of a significant problem.

At the end of this process the PKK will certainly be destroyed and we will go on our good life with our Kurdish brothers. 

This process will also fecilitate the problems to be solved between the army and civilians. The common enemy, the clear statement of cooperation between Israel and the PKK will interlock us. 

Good ones always win!

You know what... you are all so right, the USA IS behind everything bad in the world! How could I be so blind. The day I was born they had hidden camera´s everywhere, to see how I would fit in their great scheme of ruling the world. When I was born, I was taken away for half an hour. They told my mother it was to clean me, but I must have been chipped!

Since Turkey is one of the very few (lately fragile) allies the USA has in the region, the USA thought it was a good idea to attack the Turkish boat because... wait... uhm... Oh no wait, it´s because the USA has supported Israel to crazy lengths in the past (leading to critique on USA´s position towards Israel). If Israel would attack the boats and the USA would not react outraged (and it didn´t) it would lead to... oh no... wait... Hm, I guess there IS no good outcome from this attack for America. But I guess the reason that I am unable to think of a good reason, is because the chip in my head prevents me from seeing the reason.

PS: I didn´t say that America creates no wars... I said America doesn´t create all wars.

Well

I said "proof".. not a tell-tale..

As far as I know there is not one..There are speculations/comments/opinions etc..

But NO PROOF..

These rumors were always with us.. Since the begining of our republic.. Even Seyh Sait rebellion was branded as ´with the help of British´ etc. But there was not any..Same thing was said for Dersim incident (in 1938) as well.. But there was not any.. People should be able to distinguish  the things said by the army generals and politicians for uplifting the nationalist sentiments!!

In the end,  we have had our Kurdish problem which its begining is dating with the begining of our republic (1920s) what is Israel got to with it? where is Israel fit into ´banning Kurdish language of 1980s, emptying thousands of villages etc´?

Apart from that, we are talking about 1/5 , 1/6th people of Turkey here.. I believe it is disrespecting our own Kurds, in generic terms, to think that ´they are so easily led by foreigners and betraying their own country´..