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Kicked out of Germany after honour killing
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40.       catwoman
8933 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 07:10 pm

I also think that most Germans do not have anything against any Turkish individuals, but they still may dislike them as a group because of some legitimate reasons, like the fact that Turkish people live in isolated communities, do not integrate, many do not even speak German.
Someone told me a true story: a German person goes into a Turkish store in Germany and the seller did not speak German of course, so he calls someone else and says "hey, a german tourist came".

I think that some Turkish people in Germany do need to acknowledge the problems in Turkish communities instead of blaming Germans for disliking them, allegedly for no reason. Yes, it is wrong to generalize, but most of these issues are not there out of nowhere.

41.       AEnigmamagnadea
416 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 07:42 pm

Quoting catwoman:

but they still may dislike them as a group because of some legitimate reasons, like the fact that Turkish people live in isolated communities, do not integrate, many do not even speak German.



I think you are forgetting all the ex-pat communities all over the world, of all nationalities who do EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!!

In England alone, we have "little Turkeys, little Chinas, little Polands, little Pakistans etc. where people live in isolated communities in exactly the same way.

Go to the resorts of Turkey and Spain and I am sure you will find "little Englands" and "little Germanys" where people are doing the same.

It is a great excuse we all give for racism, myself included, i.e. immigrants do not integrate and do not even learn the same language. However, we should look at ourselves before we criticise others in this case

42.       teaschip
3870 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 08:00 pm

How tolerant should we be? I personally don´t care if people want to be isolated in their own communities. What I personally have a problem with is when I see business owners/workers who can´t speak English in my country. I think if you move to a country who´s language is English, you should make an effort to learn it.

This also goes for outsourcing that many companies do here in the U.S. Do you know how frustrating it is to call a company and get a call center in India instead?

43.       christine
443 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 09:03 pm

Quoting teaschip:


This also goes for outsourcing that many companies do here in the U.S. Do you know how frustrating it is to call a company and get a call center in India instead?



Yes i do and it is total frustrating

44.       CANLI
5084 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 10:11 pm

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting Cacık:

We are often too quick to assume that all Germans/Greeks hates Turks when really it is not the case. Having one or two friends who had a bad experience there cannot really give judgement to an entire nation.



Well said, Cacik! That´s exactly what I meant.

And to Canli: if someone would dare to say that muslims are terrorists because of the attacks in Casablanca, London, Madrid and New York (plus some other events), you - yes you - would get furious and say that not all muslims are like these madmen. And you would be right in that opinion.

Therefor I say, you can´t say that all/most Germans hate/dislike Turks or that all/most Westerners hate/dislike muslims. Yes, there are, I know, also in Germany, also in my country. But to generalise, well THAT makes me at least a little angry because by doing that you´ll diminish the good relations between people of different religion, you degradate the acts of people working and living together.

A view like that sounds to me full of many prejudices.


Again Trudy,you are talking about Muslims...Muslims are not region,are not a country,are not nationality,its a believe,people´s faith

You can compare Muslims to Christians,to Jewish...to whatever
But you compare a religion,or believers to the whole world ?!
How do you suppose i would answer this ?!
You are opening another issue here
We are talking about Turks,and Germans issue,yes ?
And you are talking about Muslims and the world issue?
İts another different thing
You can compare Egyptian to İsraelis,i agree,Turks to Greeks,i also agree

Again,i will say,i have never been there to judge by myself,i heard about it from Turks,i read about it,that Germans dont welcome Turks living among them,and read about many examples too
And i didnt hear or read other wise
İ didnt hear that german are happy Turks are living there,i didnt read Turks stiuations are good there,i didnt hear nor read such
Even at the Euro 2008 ´was still near´ things were boiling there between them,police were afraid of what will happen...ect
How do you expect me to form another opinion when this is the only thing i read,see and hear ?!

Even if we take your example,so at least you have heard/read Muslims said heyyy we are not terrorist
İn that case ´German/Turk´,i didnt!

But yes,i agree,there are always 2 sides to the coin...so maybe there is another one that i am not aware of.

45.       libralady
5152 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 10:18 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting Daydreamer:

That´s unbelievable! A Pole gets double life-sentence for rape in the UK while a cold-blooded murderer gets away with 9 years? The world´s gone mad!


Are you serious!? That is unbelievable...



It certainly is! When did this happen? I for one have not heard it in the news and I am sure this would have been all over the front pages of the tabloids! Most rapists in the UK get very few years, maybe 3 or 4, occasionaly they get life which means 12 or 15 and then they are free to rape again!

46.       CANLI
5084 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 10:27 pm

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:


Go to the resorts of Turkey and Spain and I am sure you will find "little Englands" and "little Germanys" where people are doing the same.


Here are İtalians/Germans/Russians
And you go to that resort,you dont even hear a SİNGLE word in English!
Even from the stuff!
İ didnt ask for Arabic,but even English...!

47.       libralady
5152 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 10:36 pm

In response to the initial post, I have first hand anecdotal experience about Turks in Germany from an organisation in Hamburg who have put programmes into place to assist Turks who live there, whom I have worked with.

Now who´s responsibility is it to ensure that Turks learn German? Considering these Turks were invited to Germany in the 1960 to perfom jobs that most Germans would not do, then surely it is the responsibility of the German government to ensure that these people have access to German classes and they have assistance to integrate.

Now you have 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, some of whom have very low levels of education. This does not mean they are thick. It is more to do with the fact that their parents have not learned German properly. They go to school with little or no German and therefore their education suffers because of it. Hence they cannot get into the jobs that they are probably capable of doing.

The language spoken in the home by the now 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, is known as "kitchen language" in Germany. In other words they can only speak a bit of German and they can´t speak Turkish properly either. So their conversation is limited to "kitchen conversations" causing their language skills and education levels to become lower.

That is why they adopt the enclave way of living, retaining their culture and their language.

The organisation in Hamburg has assisted many Turks through support (like a job centre) to learn German, get into decent jobs or start their own businesses and there are some very successful stories to come from this. But funds are limited with the funding for this project coming from European Social Fund.

It is OK for us to say they should get up of their arses and do something for themselves, well many have tried - some have succeeded and others have failed.

48.       Trudy
7887 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 10:42 pm

Quoting CANLI:

And i didnt hear or read other wise
İ didnt hear that german are happy Turks are living there,i didnt read Turks stiuations are good there,i didnt hear nor read such

But yes,i agree,there are always 2 sides to the coin...so maybe there is another one that i am not aware of.



Sorry to say, but probably you don´t read enough newspapers or the ones you read are very biased.

I know enough situations of perfectly living together, of Turks who have success in their new country.

49.       CANLI
5084 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:08 pm

Quoting Trudy:



Sorry to say, but probably you don´t read enough newspapers or the ones you read are very biased.

I know enough situations of perfectly living together, of Turks who have success in their new country.


Actually newspapers here are not much interested in the relation between Turk and German.
Maybe,they just report the exciting news...?! Dont know

Ok Trudy,i just googled ´Turks and German relationships´ and found this
http://www.turkishweekly.net/articles.php?id=146

And you can see this here,and it also goes with what LL said,

´´There is a feeling of strangeness that can be observed on both sides[8]. Generally, this is due to differences in religion and culture, but also to a general unawareness of “the other”. This can result in the following basic reactions: Rejection of the strange and unfamiliar from the side of the Germans and a strong concentration on religion and tradition from the side of the Turkish. This can be seen as a vicious circle. Turkish people who feel rejected may react with defiance, in other words, they don’t feel accepted and therefore do not “want to be accepted”. As a reaction, Germans often feel that the Turkish don’t want to be integrated. This unfavorable behavior on both sides often results in misunderstandings.´´

İ dont disagree with you Trudy,you know many Turks who lead successful lives there,but what percentage ?

50.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:22 pm

Quoting libralady:

In response to the initial post, I have first hand anecdotal experience about Turks in Germany from an organisation in Hamburg who have put programmes into place to assist Turks who live there, whom I have worked with.

Now who´s responsibility is it to ensure that Turks learn German? Considering these Turks were invited to Germany in the 1960 to perfom jobs that most Germans would not do, then surely it is the responsibility of the German government to ensure that these people have access to German classes and they have assistance to integrate.

Now you have 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, some of whom have very low levels of education. This does not mean they are thick. It is more to do with the fact that their parents have not learned German properly. They go to school with little or no German and therefore their education suffers because of it. Hence they cannot get into the jobs that they are probably capable of doing.

The language spoken in the home by the now 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, is known as "kitchen language" in Germany. In other words they can only speak a bit of German and they can´t speak Turkish properly either. So their conversation is limited to "kitchen conversations" causing their language skills and education levels to become lower.

That is why they adopt the enclave way of living, retaining their culture and their language.

The organisation in Hamburg has assisted many Turks through support (like a job centre) to learn German, get into decent jobs or start their own businesses and there are some very successful stories to come from this. But funds are limited with the funding for this project coming from European Social Fund.

It is OK for us to say they should get up of their arses and do something for themselves, well many have tried - some have succeeded and others have failed.


Can I kiss you for this LL?
====
First of all the immigration:
Western countries can stop immigration if they really want to.
But have you ever thought why they are not stopping it?
Do you think they are allowing people to come into their countries from the humanitarian perspective only?
The answer is " A HUGE NO "..
Because Western countries need them.

The low-salary workforce has always been the economical backbone of the growth, since some one needs to do the dirty work.
They are needed to sustain the level of eceonomy and free up the resources for growth.
In the U.S. or in the EU, lowly-paid service works are carried out by immigrants from less developed countries.

If the immigrants were not there, it would be a waste of time and money to assign educated people on labor-intensive works.
And, please, nobody should come up with idea that ´they are sucking up the benefits, they are using the things government is providing, they are making natives unemployed etc etc´.
In generic terms, each immigrant person contributes the economy more than he/she consumes.

And about the Germans and Turks..
I am sorry but they did not go there on the back of the lorry.. They were left with drums and clarions from Turkey and welcomed in Germany with the bands.
They were INVITED.
But, now of course two germany combined into one, the employment is in a shagging situation and some people turn around and think ´what are these Turks doing here?´
Sorry, but it is quite low level of morality.

Same thing applies to other western countries as well..Not only germany!!



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