News articles, events, announcements |
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Kicked out of Germany after honour killing
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| 50. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:22 pm |
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Quoting libralady: In response to the initial post, I have first hand anecdotal experience about Turks in Germany from an organisation in Hamburg who have put programmes into place to assist Turks who live there, whom I have worked with.
Now who´s responsibility is it to ensure that Turks learn German? Considering these Turks were invited to Germany in the 1960 to perfom jobs that most Germans would not do, then surely it is the responsibility of the German government to ensure that these people have access to German classes and they have assistance to integrate.
Now you have 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, some of whom have very low levels of education. This does not mean they are thick. It is more to do with the fact that their parents have not learned German properly. They go to school with little or no German and therefore their education suffers because of it. Hence they cannot get into the jobs that they are probably capable of doing.
The language spoken in the home by the now 2nd and 3rd generation Turks, is known as "kitchen language" in Germany. In other words they can only speak a bit of German and they can´t speak Turkish properly either. So their conversation is limited to "kitchen conversations" causing their language skills and education levels to become lower.
That is why they adopt the enclave way of living, retaining their culture and their language.
The organisation in Hamburg has assisted many Turks through support (like a job centre) to learn German, get into decent jobs or start their own businesses and there are some very successful stories to come from this. But funds are limited with the funding for this project coming from European Social Fund.
It is OK for us to say they should get up of their arses and do something for themselves, well many have tried - some have succeeded and others have failed. |
Can I kiss you for this LL? 
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First of all the immigration:
Western countries can stop immigration if they really want to.
But have you ever thought why they are not stopping it?
Do you think they are allowing people to come into their countries from the humanitarian perspective only?
The answer is " A HUGE NO "..
Because Western countries need them.
The low-salary workforce has always been the economical backbone of the growth, since some one needs to do the dirty work.
They are needed to sustain the level of eceonomy and free up the resources for growth.
In the U.S. or in the EU, lowly-paid service works are carried out by immigrants from less developed countries.
If the immigrants were not there, it would be a waste of time and money to assign educated people on labor-intensive works.
And, please, nobody should come up with idea that ´they are sucking up the benefits, they are using the things government is providing, they are making natives unemployed etc etc´.
In generic terms, each immigrant person contributes the economy more than he/she consumes.
And about the Germans and Turks..
I am sorry but they did not go there on the back of the lorry.. They were left with drums and clarions from Turkey and welcomed in Germany with the bands.
They were INVITED.
But, now of course two germany combined into one, the employment is in a shagging situation and some people turn around and think ´what are these Turks doing here?´
Sorry, but it is quite low level of morality.
Same thing applies to other western countries as well..Not only germany!!
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| 51. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:35 pm |
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Quoting Trudy:
And to Canli: if someone would dare to say that muslims are terrorists because of the attacks in Casablanca, London, Madrid and New York (plus some other events), you - yes you - would get furious and say that not all muslims are like these madmen. And you would be right in that opinion.
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Don`t they already say that? I have no idea what the word "dare" stands for here.
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| 52. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:48 pm |
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Turkish people (and other immigrants) maybe invited in the 60´s and 70´s. Most problems are not with these - now - old people. Most problems are with people of 2nd and 3rd (even 4th) generation. Kids born in their ´new´ country going to school at the age of 4 and they don´t speak a word of the local language only that of their (grand)parents. Youngsters yelling ´whore´ to women in the streets, school drop-outs with no diploma´s and (because of what I said above) a lack of correct use of language - but demanding (!) a good well paid job.
Yes, some were / are used, yes, there are employers who only take benefits of those people. But come on, you can´t stay a ´victim´ of this after 4 decades! As mature people, you can manage your life. You can send your kids to school, encourage them to study instead of looking the other way when things go wrong. Encourage them to take part of society that already excists, e.g. local sportclubs, instead of starting a new complete Turkish (or whatever nationality) one. By turning away of the society you live in, you exclude yourself from that society. And I will never say that locals are good or don´t make mistakes but I think it´s a two-way problem and acknowledge of that is not always there.
Being a teacher who has only immigrants as students, I hear many complaints. And yes, sometimes they are right. But again, life is not just ´kismet´, it´s what YOU make of it. Without own efforts they will always be, for generations long, low educated with very badly paid hard labour jobs.
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| 53. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:49 pm |
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always the topic on these threads goes from smthg to the other i almost forgot what the article said coz of all these things.lol!!! anyway honor killing???? that is no way to justify any murder!!! and it actually happens here in the uncivilized part of egypt and ppl always try to educate these ppl and show them how wrong it is but it is very hard to change centuries of traditions. The weird thing in this case is this guy has been raised in a european country youd think these traditions would fade away!And only 9 yrs??? what if he has to do another "honor kill"?? and "not german enough"??? very starnge case!!
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| 54. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:50 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting Trudy:
And to Canli: if someone would dare to say that muslims are terrorists because of the attacks in Casablanca, London, Madrid and New York (plus some other events), you - yes you - would get furious and say that not all muslims are like these madmen. And you would be right in that opinion.
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Don`t they already say that? I have no idea what the word "dare" stands for here. |
They? Who are ´they? Some - stupid - people did, yes. But not all, and that´s my point.
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| 55. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:56 pm |
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Quoting doudi94: always the topic on these threads goes from smthg to the other i almost forgot what the article said coz of all these things.lol!!! |
Ehmmmm,welcome to TLC doudi  lol
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| 56. |
06 Aug 2008 Wed 11:57 pm |
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Then you also dont deny that they are having hard situations there ,yes?!
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| 57. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 08:39 am |
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Quoting CANLI:
Then you also dont deny that they are having hard situations there ,yes?! |
Again ´they´? As I said before, I don´t like generalisations, so I don´t think one can say that THE Turk is having a hard time in Germany. But indeed, I won´t deny there must be some of them who do.
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| 58. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 10:08 am |
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I know a few German Turks who are well-educated and run their own companies. Saying that the country doesn´t give them equal chances is nonsense. In Germany there´s compulsory education at least until the age of 16 I think. If you´re unable to learn to speak the language with native-like fluency attending 10 years of school then it is just your fault.
The thing is, it all depends what your background predestines you to make of your future. If your parents see no point of education but would rather have you earn money at 18 then is it the country´s fault that instead of learning you get a low-paid job? Let´s not forget that a low pay in Germany is enough to make a living. If you marry at 18 because there´s a child on the way you´re eligible for child support benefit that gets respectively higher with every child. Is it the government´s fault that people with low incomes have a lot of children and then apply for bigger allowances? No. I understand that it´s hard to be a first or second generation of immigrants, especially if you don´t know the language. But there´s nothing justifying lack of success of the fourth generation.
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| 59. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 10:14 am |
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well i think if this man is killer it doesnt mean for which country comes or goes... 9 years for killing and after sending away from country? i think it is so unfair for all those who get 20 years for smaller crimes.He killed the men!and no matter türk or german or what ever is nationalıty - and if we start to kill just protect our honor... excuse me, but then we should kill at least half of all people.
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| 60. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 10:18 am |
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Quoting Daydreamer: I know a few German Turks who are well-educated and run their own companies. Saying that the country doesn´t give them equal chances is nonsense. In Germany there´s compulsory education at least until the age of 16 I think. If you´re unable to learn to speak the language with native-like fluency attending 10 years of school then it is just your fault.
The thing is, it all depends what your background predestines you to make of your future. If your parents see no point of education but would rather have you earn money at 18 then is it the country´s fault that instead of learning you get a low-paid job? Let´s not forget that a low pay in Germany is enough to make a living. If you marry at 18 because there´s a child on the way you´re eligible for child support benefit that gets respectively higher with every child. Is it the government´s fault that people with low incomes have a lot of children and then apply for bigger allowances? No. I understand that it´s hard to be a first or second generation of immigrants, especially if you don´t know the language. But there´s nothing justifying lack of success of the fourth generation. |
Exactly! Great post, Daydreamer. 
And for those who find it hard to believe that there is something like own responsibility, I´ll give an example: in my class I have a man from Afghanistan, now in the country for 10 years. He claims to have university education in his own country, that he was an English teacher overthere, though he hardly speaks any English. He´s been in my class for 3,5 years now (during working hours, paid by his boss!) and he still cannot say a simple sentence without mistakes. When I ask him if he reads newspapers, watches tv in Dutch or go to the library, he says no. No time he says and no interest, he watches Arab tv by satellite. Still, he accuses the government of his poverty (he has 8 children! - and gets quite some child support) but any effort made by himself has not been made to improve his circumstances. He only thinks he´s a victim of the Taliban and that because he´s a refugee the government should pamper him. Well, I disagree with that. And I think there are many more cases like that, in any country so also in Germany.
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