News articles, events, announcements |
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Kicked out of Germany after honour killing
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| 60. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 10:18 am |
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Quoting Daydreamer: I know a few German Turks who are well-educated and run their own companies. Saying that the country doesn´t give them equal chances is nonsense. In Germany there´s compulsory education at least until the age of 16 I think. If you´re unable to learn to speak the language with native-like fluency attending 10 years of school then it is just your fault.
The thing is, it all depends what your background predestines you to make of your future. If your parents see no point of education but would rather have you earn money at 18 then is it the country´s fault that instead of learning you get a low-paid job? Let´s not forget that a low pay in Germany is enough to make a living. If you marry at 18 because there´s a child on the way you´re eligible for child support benefit that gets respectively higher with every child. Is it the government´s fault that people with low incomes have a lot of children and then apply for bigger allowances? No. I understand that it´s hard to be a first or second generation of immigrants, especially if you don´t know the language. But there´s nothing justifying lack of success of the fourth generation. |
Exactly! Great post, Daydreamer. 
And for those who find it hard to believe that there is something like own responsibility, I´ll give an example: in my class I have a man from Afghanistan, now in the country for 10 years. He claims to have university education in his own country, that he was an English teacher overthere, though he hardly speaks any English. He´s been in my class for 3,5 years now (during working hours, paid by his boss!) and he still cannot say a simple sentence without mistakes. When I ask him if he reads newspapers, watches tv in Dutch or go to the library, he says no. No time he says and no interest, he watches Arab tv by satellite. Still, he accuses the government of his poverty (he has 8 children! - and gets quite some child support) but any effort made by himself has not been made to improve his circumstances. He only thinks he´s a victim of the Taliban and that because he´s a refugee the government should pamper him. Well, I disagree with that. And I think there are many more cases like that, in any country so also in Germany.
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| 61. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 11:09 am |
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Quoting Daydreamer: I know a few German Turks who are well-educated and run their own companies. Saying that the country doesn´t give them equal chances is nonsense. In Germany there´s compulsory education at least until the age of 16 I think. If you´re unable to learn to speak the language with native-like fluency attending 10 years of school then it is just your fault.
The thing is, it all depends what your background predestines you to make of your future. If your parents see no point of education but would rather have you earn money at 18 then is it the country´s fault that instead of learning you get a low-paid job? Let´s not forget that a low pay in Germany is enough to make a living. If you marry at 18 because there´s a child on the way you´re eligible for child support benefit that gets respectively higher with every child. Is it the government´s fault that people with low incomes have a lot of children and then apply for bigger allowances? No. I understand that it´s hard to be a first or second generation of immigrants, especially if you don´t know the language. But there´s nothing justifying lack of success of the fourth generation. |
many Turks face job discrimination in Germany. I know many educated Turks are not employed in higher positions no matter what their qualifications are. and you`re still saying that the country gives them equal chances. 
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| 62. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 12:12 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika: many Turks face job discrimination in Germany. I know many educated Turks are not employed in higher positions no matter what their qualifications are. and you`re still saying that the country gives them equal chances. |
There was also a recent article in a Turkish newspaper (TDN I think and I will endeavour to find it for you) that showed an incresing interest in employing well educated Turks. They are hard working and have proven themselves responsible. They are now being head hunted in Turkey by worldwide multi national companies. I think again we come across a slight generalisation that all Turks are discrimintaed against and are the victims. It is not the case and I love to see the young Turks here and abroad who are standing on their own two feet, taking the opportunities they have of a good education with both hands and giving it their all and succeeding ! It does happen, not everyone is a victim.
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| 63. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 12:13 pm |
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Quoting Trudy: Quoting Daydreamer: I know a few German Turks who are well-educated and run their own companies. Saying that the country doesn´t give them equal chances is nonsense. In Germany there´s compulsory education at least until the age of 16 I think. If you´re unable to learn to speak the language with native-like fluency attending 10 years of school then it is just your fault.
The thing is, it all depends what your background predestines you to make of your future. If your parents see no point of education but would rather have you earn money at 18 then is it the country´s fault that instead of learning you get a low-paid job? Let´s not forget that a low pay in Germany is enough to make a living. If you marry at 18 because there´s a child on the way you´re eligible for child support benefit that gets respectively higher with every child. Is it the government´s fault that people with low incomes have a lot of children and then apply for bigger allowances? No. I understand that it´s hard to be a first or second generation of immigrants, especially if you don´t know the language. But there´s nothing justifying lack of success of the fourth generation. |
Exactly! Great post, Daydreamer.
And for those who find it hard to believe that there is something like own responsibility, I´ll give an example: in my class I have a man from Afghanistan, now in the country for 10 years. He claims to have university education in his own country, that he was an English teacher overthere, though he hardly speaks any English. He´s been in my class for 3,5 years now (during working hours, paid by his boss!) and he still cannot say a simple sentence without mistakes. When I ask him if he reads newspapers, watches tv in Dutch or go to the library, he says no. No time he says and no interest, he watches Arab tv by satellite. Still, he accuses the government of his poverty (he has 8 children! - and gets quite some child support) but any effort made by himself has not been made to improve his circumstances. He only thinks he´s a victim of the Taliban and that because he´s a refugee the government should pamper him. Well, I disagree with that. And I think there are many more cases like that, in any country so also in Germany. |
I am sorry
But this is a one sided blame and same as, almost what nationalist parties say in any western countries.
You are intentionally trying to take out the racism issue from the problem and presenting as if the situation is entirely their own fault.
Well it is not!!
And my greatest crush DD!, you are giving the example of 4th generation but then how can you explain blacks in the uk?
They have been here for a long time more than the Turks have been in Germany. They are still subject to racism here. They speak the language but they are still less employable than the whites.
Basically, what I am trying to say that all about these moanings in the west about the immigrants mainly coming from racism. You can find individual cases to criticizes them but in generic terms you should be thankful to them that they have come into your country and doing some of your (mainly dirty) work.
You need them..
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| 64. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 12:36 pm |
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You´re right Handsom, they are less employable, that´s why 90% of doctors in my hospital are black/Indian. Poor them, have to do such low-paid jobs and cannot benefit from their education (not to mention the fact that their English is quite bad at times)
I´m still going to insist that it is the motivation that either makes you succeed or fail and it doesn´t go to people of colour or immigrants, it´s the same when you examine poor neighbourhoods and white Brits/Germans living there - how many of them get good education and well-paid jobs?
I´m surrounded by immigrants being one myself, you wouldn´t believe what kind of excuses people come up with just to justify their failures. Yet, I don´t know any people who speak the language, are skilled and unemployed or work below their qualifications.
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| 65. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 12:57 pm |
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DD
Here is a report for you
http://www.tuc.org.uk/welfare/tuc-10172-f0.pdf
some headlines :
The facts reveal that black workers in Britain are more likely to be poor and unemployed than white people.
Therefore black workers should be more likely to benefit from the Government’s flagship goal of ending child
poverty by 2020
Please check the employment rates for the ethnic communities in page 2
Another suggestion is that these figures reflect different levels of skills and qualifications. But, as the government’s Ethnic Minorities Employment Task Force has shown, for any given level of qualifications, a black or minority ethnic person will be less likely to be employed than a white person with the same qualifications. For instance, 81.4% of BMEs with degrees are employed, compared with 87.4% of white people. In fact, a white person whose
highest qualification is GCSEs at grade A-C is substantially more likely to have a job than a black or minority ethnic person with A levels (the gap in employment rates is more than 10 per cent).
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| 66. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 01:00 pm |
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All your posts complaining about immigrants not learning to speak English AMAZE ME!
Don´t you know that English speaking countries are the worst when it comes to learning languages - even when they reside in that said country?
A great example is in the link attached about Americans living in Mexico. I could find thousands of similar examples regarding English people in Spain.
Stop being so hypocritical!
http://www.expatfocus.com/whats-wrong-with-us-in-mexico
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| 67. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 01:09 pm |
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I´m really sorry to hear you have to live in such a terrible and discriminatory country, Handsom. I did my browsing and I found that
"Those from ethnic minority groups have lower average earnings than the white population. However there are differences between minority ethnic groups, with Indian men having slightly higher average earnings than white men. Pakistani men have significantly lower earnings. There is a slightly different pattern for women, with Black Caribbean, Black African, Chinese and Indian women earning more than white women, on average"
http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/UK/index51.aspx?ComponentId=12699&SourcePageId=18134
AE, you´re right about native English speakers being worst to force to learn a foreign language - I remember my landlord telling me about his holiday in South America where, to his greatest surprise, hardly anybody spoke English  . Yet, I haven´t met a doctor in Poland who wouldn´t speak Polish...
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| 68. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 01:10 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: You´re right Handsom, they are less employable, that´s why 90% of doctors in my hospital are black/Indian. Poor them, have to do such low-paid jobs and cannot benefit from their education (not to mention the fact that their English is quite bad at times) |
Do you know the facts about why we have so many Indian doctors? Are you aware that in the 1960s Britain desparately wanted Indian doctors to emmigrate to the UK and actively encouraged them? Do you know they were sent to the poorest areas and into the lowest paid jobs that nobody in the UK would do?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/timeshift/raj-int.shtml
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| 69. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 01:13 pm |
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Quoting AEnigmamagnadea: Quoting Daydreamer: You´re right Handsom, they are less employable, that´s why 90% of doctors in my hospital are black/Indian. Poor them, have to do such low-paid jobs and cannot benefit from their education (not to mention the fact that their English is quite bad at times) |
Do you know the facts about why we have so many Indian doctors? Are you aware that in the 1960s Britain desparately wanted Indian doctors to emmigrate to the UK and actively encouraged them? Do you know they were sent to the poorest areas and into the lowest paid jobs that nobody in the UK would do?
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Isnt it simply creating a class?
how good is it to send indians to the where british wouldnt like to go? 
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| 70. |
07 Aug 2008 Thu 01:15 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: Isnt it simply creating a class?
how good is it to send indians to the where british wouldnt like to go? |
This is exactly my point!! 
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