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Forum Messages Posted by gokuyum

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Thread: Questions

3241.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 24 Mar 2012 Sat 07:31 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I have tried to read carefully everything that natives have said in this thread. To sum up everything as I have understood it I noticed the following:

 

The problem about the structure 35 yaş|ı|n|da|yım was the adjective nature of Turkish numerals. In a compound they don’t demand a POSS in the next noun. For a while I was suspecting this because all adjectives as a matter of fact can be used as nouns. But it seems that numbers are especially sensitive adjectives: they hardly ever stand on their own, there has to be a noun after them (tane, kişi). The problem remains.

 

As the POSS in yaş|ı|n|da|yım can’t be motivated by the compound it has to be motivated by something else. I think there are two alternatives that have been mentioned in the course of this discussion. Actually one of them has been shot down already but I still try to rise it up:

 

1. Analogy of cases where the expression of measure is between the numeral and the quality, like 1.80 (meter) boy|u|n|da|yım.

 

2. Ellipsis.

 

a) There is something that we can’t see between 35 and yaşındayım. A measure. yil, yaş? In this case yaş in yaşındayım wouldn’t mean ‘year’ but ‘age’ (which is its first equivalent in some dictionaries). The structure would be like in the boy thing in nr 1.

 

b) There is something that we can’t see before 35. A genitive marked noun: something like yaşın, yıllarımın, zamanın… I suggested this but scalpel said in that case the numeral should be the ordinal 35inci. Is it impossible to imagine that it once was ordinal but it was simplified? In other languages I have seen processes like this. It seems like a very logical development because the ordinal marker is nothing but a burden from the point of view of information. But if something like this really happened there should be marks of it in old litteral language, I suppose.

 

My knowledge is limited but a learner can speculate as much as she wants. If she has the guts.


A simple explanation try of me:

 

25 yaş-ı-n-da-y-ım

As you know we can use possive -ı if it is a part of noun clouse. There are two options here:

 

1)Definite noun clause:

If there is a possesive -ı in the sentence it belongs to 3.person. If we put "onun" into this sentence. It doesnt make sense.

 

2)Indefinite noun clause:

It is also not an idefinite noun clause like kapı kolu, araba tekeri because 25 functions as an adjective here.

 

Another theory:

 

If it is 25 (yıl) yaşındayım than it is correct. I looked at google and i found "yıl yaşında"

http://www.google.com.tr/#hl=tr&sclient=psy-ab&q=y%C4%B1l+ya%C5%9F%C4%B1nda&oq=y%C4%B1l+ya%C5%9F%C4%B1nda&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.3...595l2779l2l3424l5l5l0l0l0l1l1781l6027l6-2j2j1l5l0.frgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d651b3bd1e9eca4c&biw=1138&bih=464

 

Result: I am not sure anymore.

 



Edited (3/24/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (3/24/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (3/24/2012) by gokuyum



Thread: Ottoman Poetry

3242.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 23 Mar 2012 Fri 07:22 am

 

Quoting Mavili

Seems there is a hole in knowledge from these poems. As yet I had not found any sources that tell what languages were being spoken in the later years, but I had figured Arabic was being spoken in the Ottoman empire at least for most of it, Or was this Turkish being spoken up until the last Sultan (1913)?

Curiosity of Türk history came with learning the language, for me at least. Ive been reading about ´Ottoman´ culture and military history (because of this I wish I had a way to see that film Fetih 1453{#emotions_dlg.sad}


Turkish was being spoken in Ottoman empire. But Ottoman Turkish was used as a written language by intellectuals. We used Arab alphabet but we didnt speak Arabic in daily life. Arabic was the language of science. In schools they taught mathematic, astronomy, chemistry, etc, with Arabic.

 

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Thread: Ottoman Poetry

3243.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2012 Thu 11:41 am

                                   -3-

Halk içinde mu´teber bir nesne yok devlet gibi
Olmaya devlet cihânda bir nefes sihhat gibi


There is no worthy thing like prosperity among the folk

There is no prosperity like a breath of health in the world.


Ko bu ays u isreti çünkim fenâdur âkibet
Yâr-i baaki ister isen olmaya tâat gibi

Leave this junket because its end is bad.

If you want an everlasting beloved, there is no other than worshipping.



Olsa kumlar sagisinca ömrüne hadd ü aded
Gelmeye bu sise-i çarh içre bir sâat gibi

If you had days to live as many as sands

They wouldnt be even one hour in this bottle of heavens.



Saltanat didükleri ancak cihân gavgaasidur
Olmaya baht u saâdet âlem-i vahdet gibi

The thing that they call sultanate is only fight for world.

There is no fortune and happiness like the universe of unity.



Ger huzûr itmek dilesen ey Muhibbî fârig ol
Var midur vahdet makaami gûse-i uzlet gibi

If you want to be in peace Muhibbi, be away from everything.

Is there a place of unity like the place of loneliness  ?

 

                                                 Muhibbi (Suleiman the Magnificent) 1494-1566

 

Here is a poem of another poet emperor. First couplet of poem is very famous.

 



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Edited (2/10/2014) by gokuyum

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Thread: Ottoman Poetry

3244.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2012 Thu 10:53 am

 

Quoting Abla

Is this the same person whom the Arabs call Muhammad il-Fatah (“Muhammad the Opener” ) and who conquered Istanbul from the Patriarch of Constantinopole in the 15th century?  -  I didn’t know he was a poet but little I know.

Poetry was very much appreciated in early Islamic societies. It has been told that some of the Prophet’s closest people, for instance his wife Aisha, had great knowledge in poetry. This side of Islam, appreciation of scholarship and tolerance of worldly life, is unfortunately not very much stressed by islamists of these days.

This poem is real lyrics in the sense that it doesn’t manifest anything but reflects a person’s inner life, insecurity and the psychological dissonance we all struggle with. Thank you for adding today´s portion of culture, gokuyum.

 

Yes. We call him Fatih Sultan Mehmet. Fatih means opener or conquerer. Mehmet is a variation of Muhammed in Turkish.

There are other poet emperors too. I will also translate their poems.

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Thread: Ottoman Poetry

3245.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2012 Thu 09:57 am

                                             -2-

Sakiya mey sun ki bir gün lalezar elden gider

 O cupbearer! Present me wine. One day tulip garden will go out of hand.


Sakiya mey sun ki bir gün lalezar elden gider
Erişir fasl-ı hazan bağ-u bahar elden gider.
O cupbearer! Present me wine. One day tulip garden will go out of hand.
Fall season will reach, vineyard of spring will go out of hand.


Her nice Zühd-ü salaha mail olur hatırım
Gördüğümce ol nigarı ihtiyar elden gider.
Whenever my mind is willing for worshipping and peace,
When I see that beautiful, my will goes out of hand.


Şöyle hak oldum ki, ah etmeye havf eyler gönül
Lacerem bad-ı saba ile gubar elden gider.
I have become earth, my heart is even afraid of sighing
Without doubt, with the morning wind dust will go out of hand.

Gırre olma dilbera hüsnü cemale kıl vefa
Baki kalmaz kimseye nakşünigar elden gider.
O beloved! Dont be proud of your beauty. Be faithful!
Because beauty will not last forever, it will go out of hand.

Yar içün ağyar ile merdane ceng etsem gerek
İt gibi murdar rakib ölmezse yar elden gider.
I must fight bravely with the rivals for the beloved.
If dog like rival doesnt die, bloved will go out of hand
                                                                             Avni (Fatih Sultan Mehmet)
                                                                                     1432-1481
This is a poem of Ottoman Emperor Mehmed II. who conquered İstanbul. He was a good poet and his pen name was Avni.

 



Edited (3/22/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (3/22/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (10/24/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (2/10/2014) by gokuyum

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Thread: t to e

3246.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 22 Mar 2012 Thu 09:06 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

My Guess:

Ok, you say we want to stay mysterious. No no, I made a translation, only the two of mine was were only a gesture.

 

 

 



Edited (3/22/2012) by gokuyum

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Thread: can I say

3247.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 21 Mar 2012 Wed 07:59 am

 

Quoting Abla

I asked because I found this in the dictionary:

 

           Bundan sonra ne Sarıyer´e, ne Marıyer´e gider; hiçbir yere gitmez.

 

There seems to be three different negations. Is it wrong?

I think there must be another verb in the sentence. "gitmez" only belongs to "hiçbir yere".

 

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Thread: Practice with a Proverb-excessive adjective

3248.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 21 Mar 2012 Wed 07:50 am

 

Quoting Mavili

Biri asla öğrenmek için fazla yaşlı. -"One(someone) is never too old to learn." 

I had thought to use -çok initially but none of it´s uses seem to fit in with "excessiveness" which  is how "too" is being used here. My instinct to use "-mek için" simply because I was not sure how to tie the excessive adjective in with the verb. Another example:

"The kitten is too small to jump up on(to) the bed."

Where you have the excessive adjective (too small), followed by verb infinitive (to jump) Though I know how -mek için is supposed to be used

 

Biri öğrenmek için asla yaşlı değil.

 

Think"asla" here as "ever" not "never". So we need to make sentence negative with "değil".

Mavili liked this message


Thread: Saying \"how to...\" in Turkish

3249.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 20 Mar 2012 Tue 12:50 pm

 

Quoting sufler

Merhaba!

Could you tell me how do you build in Turkish impersonal constructions with "how to..."?

For example: I don´t know how to say this in Turkish.

Türkçe bu nasıl söylenir bilmiyorum.

or maybe passive?

Türkçe bunun nasıl söylendiğini bilmiyorum

 

 

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Thread: Questions

3250.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 20 Mar 2012 Tue 06:21 am

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

Gokuyum, may I ask if you don´t mind why did you edit this "short message" four times in 25 minutes?  

 

I made some explanations on matter. But after reading previous posts I understood there was no need for further explanations and I deleted them.



Edited (3/20/2012) by gokuyum



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