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Turkish Poetry and Literature

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EROTIZMA-CAN YÜCEL
(351 Messages in 36 pages - View all)
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240.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 11:42 am

Hey! Good timing Deli_kizin And ideas just as good

241.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 11:47 am

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting Deli_kizin:

such a weak arguments.



''called for the Koran to be banned and likened it to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf''
Wilders
That is NOT what you can call it such such a weak argument !
Coming from democratically parliamentarian elected by you,that means MUCH im afraid !



HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ MY POST, CANLI? You are so taken over by your hatred towards all that is non-muslim and isnt afraid to say something about it. I hate Wilders, he has said many things that I dont agree with, including your Quote. I even wrote a letter about it to the newspaper. And yes, it is scary that he is getting more and more votes lately. However, I did not vote for him, yet you keep attacking me. I disgust your way of talking.

Your comments make my blood boil. You say you treat every Danish personally? But you dont want to buy their food? Sorry but how is that personal treatment? What does Danish population have to do with their cartoonist? You are so one-sided in your comments. All you do is get furious. But I agree with what is said before: its a Muslim duty to clear the bad reputation. And your 'respect my holy book'-shouts, will accomplish the contrary!

242.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 11:53 am

Quoting CANLI:


Making a movie about Qur'an ??!!!!
OMG,you really dont have respect for anything at ALL,NOTHİNG ?!



Should I respect a book I dont believe in? In that case you should respect a cartoon too, because that is what its maker believed in.

You demand respect from us, but give nothing in return.


I am willing to treat something that is sacred for another with respect. As an example, I am reading Quran and instead of putting it under my bed like I do with all books, I put it high up in the bookcase, so that my partners housemate wont get offended if he sees. I wont crush something of which I know it is sacred for another. But apparantly freedom of speech is not in your book (general). Because you do nothing to respect it. You just want us to respect something that means nothing to us, but are not willing to accept the fact that it doesnt mean anything.


You - us and stuff, they are just general. I dont feel like debating personally.. Im glad Im gone till friday, so that I wont have to feel 'insulted' by Canlı who thinks I back up a rightwing idiot politician, and who thinks I am against Islam and enjoy insulting her holy book.

243.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 12:09 pm

Well put DK!

Canli,

I owe you further explanation but I forgot to include it in my previous post.

Saying "attack" I didn't mean the attack in Iraq but verbal attacks on discussion boards. I am not as ignorant as you wish to think and I am aware of underlying motives of Iraq's occupation.

As for my respecting people or not, I don't disrespect everyone at first. I don't care about most people - and it is neither disrespect not respect. Also, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, nor is it a crucial thing to earn my respect.

244.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 12:52 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

Hey! Good timing Deli_kizin And ideas just as good



Just saw your post!

245.       CANLI
5084 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 01:40 pm

D_K,i wasnt refering to you personally in my post,and i thought that was opvious so i didnt state it...my mistake
And im sorry if you got offended by that.

246.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 02:03 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Because I have read some of your posts, and wondered what you had to say about this QUOTE]

end of quote (help! I can't get out of this blue area!)


D-K

Before I make my main point, I would like to say I understand what you are saying about what is happening in your country on the political front and you are right to be concerned about Wilders. Your discussion with Catwoman (while you waited for Canli) was interesting and showed your genuine concern and sadness.

My main point is this:

You are an extremely intelligent and articulate woman. As you say, you have read some of Canli's posts. So in my opinion you knew what her reaction would be. This makes me suspicious of your motives for asking your question in the first place. I think the word I'm looking for is provocation. Why would you want to do that I wonder?

Nothing you said about Islam has not been said before and will probably be said again. Canli, like yourself is a decent human being however I think she should have ignored your question because the conversation was only ever going to head in one direction.

In the interests of retaining my crown of sanctimony, I must suggest that, as a moderator, you have not done your homework and read the site rules . . . you know, the ones about politics, religion and insults (I think accusing someone of having hatred is a tad insulting).

Yes . . . I KNOW I have no room to preach, but then I'm not a moderator . . . I'm supposed to be kept in line . . .by you dear.

Now, this word, 'respect' . . . it has been used quite a lot. How do you suppose you will promote members' respect for site rules and moderators' decisions when moderation is inconsistent and moderators flout the rules (even cause arguments in some instances ) ?

Inconsistency . . . that reminds me . . . Catwoman - You gave public threats of deletion for instances of insulting language, yet no public warnings to either DK or Canli about discussing religion and politics. tut tut

Completely off topic - I suddenly saw myself as the Hunchback of Notre Dame . . . only I wasn't swinging from the bell rope yelling "sanctuary!" . . . no prizes for guessing which word I yelled by the way

247.       CANLI
5084 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 02:39 pm

Quote:

Quoting Deli_kizin:

I almost forgot that your book is all about interpretation. Its just a pity that that interpretation has caused for such a big split among many many muslim communities (the Sunni branch alone has 4 lawschools with different rules!) that it has become to hard for me to understand what is Islam.




Honey,
There are so many branches in Christianity,and YET you understand it well as i suppose
So we understand ours very well too.

Quoting Deli_kizin:


If its that holy it dont need protection honey!



İf the Bible is that Holy to you,so ours is that Holy too
İ didnt say anything about protection,its about respect

Quoting Deli_kizin:

And yes, it is scary that he is getting more and more votes lately. However, I did not vote for him, yet you keep attacking me. I disgust your way of talking.



İm sorry that is the way you feel,as i said in my previous post,i didnt mean you personnlay
As you said here this man is getting more and more votes lately,then the people there are backing him up,agree with what he thinks,it doesnt have to be you dear,but that is the way many people many people think as you just said,and that makes me more disgusted actually

Quoting Deli_kizin:


Your comments make my blood boil. You say you treat every Danish personally? But you dont want to buy their food? Sorry but how is that personal treatment? What does Danish population have to do with their cartoonist? You are so one-sided in your comments. All you do is get furious. But I agree with what is said before: its a Muslim duty to clear the bad reputation. And your 'respect my holy book'-shouts, will accomplish the contrary!



Actually,i dont agree its my duty to clear anything,i wont be walking arround saying hey guys,we are not bad,just hear us out
No,im sorry,as you dont feel you have to defend your thoughts and your believes,i dont feel same too
And even in a way,Muslims tried it by producing movies about İslam,and prophet but that didnt work well,not many Cinema's bought it there .
They simply didnt want to know !

As for danish,we interact personally as individuals when they come to our country,as you said they dont have anything to do with Cartoons,but in formal level,as a country exporting its product to us,noe,sorry,i dont want to deal with that
İ dont want to buy anything from them,and that is my personal choice too
Dont i have that freedom as well ?!
My comments made your blood boil,so as you said you wont even consider to reply to my post
And their Cartoons made my blood boil too,so i cant even say i dont want to deal with them ?!!!


Quoting Deli_kizin:



Should I respect a book I dont believe in? In that case you should respect a cartoon too, because that is what its maker believed in.

You demand respect from us, but give nothing in return.

I am willing to treat something that is sacred for another with respect. As an example, I am reading Quran and instead of putting it under my bed like I do with all books, I put it high up in the bookcase, so that my partners housemate wont get offended if he sees. I wont crush something of which I know it is sacred for another. But apparantly freedom of speech is not in your book (general). Because you do nothing to respect it. You just want us to respect something that means nothing to us, but are not willing to accept the fact that it doesnt mean anything.



NOT TRUE

İ demand respect from you to our religion and our Holy book,and i offer same too

İ respect Bible and i do not believe in also
As you said yourself,you treat something that is sacred for another with respect
And that is what we do,and demand it also...

You want me to respect who are insulting me ?!
And you are comparing the Holy book with some Cartoons ?
İf you want to do comparision,then compare the holly book with another
Qur'an with Bible,and if we respect it or not

We respect Bible too and it also means nothing to us,and we ask for same respect too to Qur'an and knowing ,accepting it means nothing to you too
But its mutual respect that between people,who want to interact with one another.

And you are doing just this as you said in your post,so i dont know exactly what we are argue about ?
You offer that respect to Kur'an to concider partners housemate feelings,and also he should offer same to your holly book too
That is exactly what i talk about and demand by respect


Quoting Deli_kizin:


You - us and stuff, they are just general. I dont feel like debating personally.. Im glad Im gone till friday, so that I wont have to feel 'insulted' by Canlı who thinks I back up a rightwing idiot politician, and who thinks I am against Islam and enjoy insulting her holy book.



Aynı,just to make it clear again that i dont mean you personally
İm sorry again you felt insulted ,was my mistake i didnt make it clear the first time.

248.       CANLI
5084 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 04:16 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:



İ guess you didnt read my post well,
İ've said

Quoting CANLI:



You assumed İslam ordered this,then should we assume Christianity,and Judaism ordered such too ?!
Specially Crusade is well known and it could prove such claim it !


There is the holly book,and its rules,and there are people and do they apply those rules
Some apply it right,some apply it wrong
İts not the book mistake

When a Christian man lies,should i persume that Christianity apply lying or cheeting
Should i think that it ordered it ?!

İ didnt say the East is great and do all the right things,
İ didnt say there are so many things here dont need to be changed
There are
But i said its not İslam fault,İslam has its own rules,and its obvious
People follow or not,its not İslam's fault
İ didnt say there are no Muslim terrorist
There is 9/11,there is Palastin and there is İraq also...so i dont get your point !
You have mosques in your countries,we have churches in ours,so ?

Action of one democratically PARRLİAMENTARİAN person have been elected by his people you mean.
You were free to make your choices,and we are free whether to accept it or not.

İ believe we have problem in clarifying freedom
You believe freedom's limit is the sky
İ believe freedom limits end when it start to hurt some body else

btw,'you' is generally spoken

To answer your question,
[Just a digression here - how many homes for battered women are there in the East? Or how many homes for single mothers?].
İ dont think we have homes for battered women,such women are welcome to go back to their families,family ties here is very strong,so i dont think we need one,even i dont know if we have or not,maybe in the women affair counsel they provide one,that i dont know about.
As for single mothers thank god we dont need it,as sex without marriage not spreading here
But if you mean mothers who lost their husbands and so,again they are welcome at their families homes,parents ,brothers or whatever so they dont need such homes too.

Whether you think İslam is good or bad religion,its your own business actually not mine
My businees is you respect my choice of believes as i respect yours

Stating what your Media provide to you about the East is a fact,is it providing bad things or good things i believe you can answer this much better than i do
But just a note,there is no one or nothing bad %100 or good %100,is there?

West is good or bad, just,or very unjust to Muslims,it wouldnt make us any harm actually
Sadly,it would harm the communications between us

Wehther,West is good,or West is bad,East is good,or East is bad
West and East are there and will always be there wehther they are bad or good so we better deal with that.

249.       teaschip
3870 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 04:16 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

Ok, so what I gather is Islam is such a beautiful religion, with equal rights to everyone regardless of sex. Everybody's free to make their own choices, religion that doesn't allow killing people for having different believes contrary to Christianity which is responsible for Crusades (regardless of the fact that Crusades lasted till 16th century with their peak in 13th and that the Church condemned them).

Muslims are simply misunderstood, it's not real Muslims who organise terrorist attacks, they are just a tiny fraction of fundamentalists not representative of the whole religious community. The West has absolutely no Muslim communities, those who are there are suffering from constant persecutions, there isn't a single mosque and nowhere can they practise their religion. All West hates Muslims because of the propaganda in tv calling those responsible for 9/11 and London attacks terrorists. Biased media dares to call people skinning their captives terrorists.

How barbaric is the Western media in comparison to propaganda-free Muslim countries. Only there are women free to do whatever they want. They do want to be dependant on men, at least they have no problems getting married unlike poor sexually abused women selling their bodies cheap in the West. They absolutely trust their parents so no choice their parents make is bad for them. Of course they can reject a candidate they don't like like I'm sure it often happens because all Muslim women marry of love. Because their fiancé cannot see them, bodily, animal-like desire is avoided. Thanks to that a woman is not a sexual object but a person. Of course, being a person she may make mistakes, then her husband has the right to punish her with his hand (if I remember correctly). [Just a digression here - how many homes for battered women are there in the East? Or how many homes for single mothers?]. She may even go to work - now that's progress - of course, if her husband lets her to. She has so many other duties, all those kids and housework. Oh, right - she was made to breed so the first chance coming, she should have as many children as her husband wants to. He is the smarter part of the tandem after all. etc etc...

So, the liberal and just Muslim countries don't ban a whole country from an international event basing on the actions of one person. But the evil and corrupt West countries banished all Muslims from for the actions of a group that killed thousands of innocent people and also ban them from any international events.

You're right Canli. West is bad and very unjust to Muslims. Unlike Muslims to the West.



Completely agree with Deli and you once again..your on a role..The west is bed very bed.....

250.       alameda
3499 posts
 05 Mar 2008 Wed 10:26 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

Ok, so what I gather is Islam is such a beautiful religion, with equal rights to everyone regardless of sex. Everybody's free to make their own choices, religion that doesn't allow killing people for having different believes contrary to Christianity which is responsible for Crusades (regardless of the fact that Crusades lasted till 16th century with their peak in 13th and that the Church condemned them). .



Dare I mention the fact that the

Inquisitionthen began in earnest?

Dare I mention witch hunts?

The Witchcraft Act

the Witchcraft Act was only repealled in 1951

Regarding human rights and Islam I suggest reading this:

Are Human Rights Compatible with Islam?


Quoting Daydreamer:

Muslims are simply misunderstood, it's not real Muslims who organise terrorist attacks, they are just a tiny fraction of fundamentalists not representative of the whole religious community. The West has absolutely no Muslim communities, those who are there are suffering from constant persecutions, there isn't a single mosque and nowhere can they practise their religion. All West hates Muslims because of the propaganda in tv calling those responsible for 9/11 and London attacks terrorists. Biased media dares to call people skinning their captives terrorists. .



...and things like White phosphorus (weapon) are civilized?


Seeing as you are so interested in Islam, why don't you actually visit some sites that are set up to answer, as religious discussions are against the forum rules here and we can expect this thread to be locked very soon.

http://www.altmuslim.com/a

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/bb/index.php


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