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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive

1191.       erdinc
2151 posts
 12 Jan 2006 Thu 03:04 am

Thanks bod. I corrected it now.



Thread: What does all this mean..

1192.       erdinc
2151 posts
 12 Jan 2006 Thu 02:15 am

The other translation is also good. oceanmavi you are doing well.

"I had asked you a question, do you remember? It was the one which would have taken to much time to answer. The one about the entry and exit times of school."

Could a native speaker tell me if it's OK to use entry and exit in this context.



Thread: Diş ağrısı

1193.       erdinc
2151 posts
 12 Jan 2006 Thu 01:51 am

---------------------------------------------
Lets Start with a short summary:
abilitative suffix : -ebil, -abil

I decided to use this term as potential will be misleading especially with its negative.

example:
yüzmek : infinitive (double click on yüzmek for its meaning)
yüz+er : s/he swims
yüz+ebil+ir : s/he may swim (permission), s/he might swim (possibility), s/he can swim (ability),
yüz+dü: s/he swam
yüz+ebil+di : s/he he could swim, s/he was able to swim

Negative of Abilitative Suffix : -e (+ me) , -a (+ ma)
example:
yüz+e+me+di: s/he couldnt swim

I'm also calling the "Negative of Abilitative Suffix" as unabaility suffix.
---------------------------------------------

As explained above uyumadım (I didn't sleep) or uyuyamadım (I couldn't sleep) can be used in Bod's sentence. So we could say:
Dün gece uyumadım. (I didn't sleep last night) or
Dün gece uyuyamadım. (I couldn't sleep last night)

Quoting deli:

but isnt uyuyamamdim also = i couldnt sleep and uyumayabilirim= i might not be able to sleep ?


There are some typos.
"But isn't uyuyamadım also = i couldnt sleep and uyumayabilirim = i might not be able to sleep ?"

The first part is OK but the second part doesnt fit the translation. So we either change the translation or we change the Turkish text. Here are both:

uyumayabilirim = I might not sleep
uyuyamayabilirim = I might be not able to sleep

These are not possible to use in the context bod mentioned but they are worth having a close look. So here it goes:

1. uyumayabilirim = I might not sleep
2. uyuyamayabilirim = I might be not able to sleep

1. uyumayabilirim : uyu + ma+ y+ abil + ir + im
verb stem 'uyu' + negative suffix 'ma' + buffer 'y' + Abilitative suffix, Positive 'abil' + aorist tense 'ir' + first singular personal suffix 'im'

So we have the potential of negative in the aorist tense. In other word, there is a possibility of something not to happen. This is the potential of negative (not the negative potential). What this means is that, I am able not to do something. I have the ability to choose something not to do.

2. uyuyamayabilirim : uyu + y + a + ma + y + abil + ir +im : verb stem 'uyu' + buffer 'y' + abilitative suffix, negative 'a' + negative suffix 'ma' + buffer 'y' + abilitative suffix, positive 'abil' + aorist tense 'ir' + first singular personal suffix 'im'

The red part is as follows: y buffer, a unability suffix, ma negative suffix. The unability suffix is always accompanied by the negative suffix next to it.

The 'a' together with 'ma' expresses unabaility.
The 'abil' is expressing possibility.

So we have the possibility of unabaility in aorist tense. This means that there is a possibility to being not able to do something.

You might start thinking that things are getting too complicated with that verb on number two but it is actually possible to continue the story by adding the narrative mood to number two: uyuyamayabilirdim :
"I could have been unable to sleep" (unreality)

Anyway. There is no end with grammar but the good news is that to can ignore it almost completely. You will learn these details by gaining a feeling from your readings. I have just uploaded a very simple story .



Thread: A short story for Turkish learners

1194.       erdinc
2151 posts
 12 Jan 2006 Thu 01:38 am

Alicia,
thank you for your answer. You did very well.



Thread: Diş ağrısı

1195.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 11:40 pm

Quoting bod:

One thing though:
uyumadım is "I didn't sleep"
I actually wanted the past negative potential:
uyuyamadım - "I wasn't able to sleep"



I knew this. I was trying to keep things simple. But you seem already familiar with that suffix.

The unability suffix for verbs is -e, -a or -ye -ya after vowels where y is a buffer. It is placed after the verb stem. So you got it correct. Very well done.

I will paste some exercises I have written for my private lessons. These include the negative past tense and the use of unability suffix which is a slight addition to the negative past. There are some translations to do. Here we go:

Negative Past Tense:

verb stem + negative suffix + past tense suffix + personal suffix

yüzmek > yüz > yüzdü > yüzmedi > yüzmedim : yüz + me+ di +m

gitmek > git > gitti > gitmedi > gitmedim : git + me +di +m


Ben balık yemedim.

..............................................................................................................

Ben Bodrum’a gitmedim.

..............................................................................................................


Ben çok uyumadım.

..............................................................................................................


I didnt swim in the sea.

..............................................................................................................

I didnt go to the doctor.

..............................................................................................................


I havent heard a sound.

..............................................................................................................


Sen rüya gördün mü? .............................................................


Sen acıktın mı? .............................................................


Sen müzik dinledin mi? .............................................................


Sen Türkiye’yi sevdin mi? .............................................................



UNABILITY IN PAST TENSE -1-

past tense:
yüzdü, yüzmedi, yüzdü mü?
gitti, gitmedi, gitti mi?

past tense unability > -e -a -ye -ya

verb stem + ability suffix+ negative suffix+past tense suffix+personal suffix

yüz+e+me+di+m al+a+ma+dı+m oku+ya+ma+dı+m bekle+ye+me+di+m


Ayşe denizde yüzmek istedi ama yüzemedi.

............................................................................................................

Ali evde uyumak istedi ama uyuyamadı.

............................................................................................................


Ahmet balinadan kaçmak istedi ama kaçamadı.

............................................................................................................


Ahmet balık tutmak istedi ama tutamadı.

............................................................................................................


Balina Ahmet’i yemek istedi ama yiyemedi.

............................................................................................................


Ayşe uçmak istedi ama uçamadı.

............................................................................................................


Ali yüzmek istedi ve yüzdü.

............................................................................................................


Ben Türkçe öğrenmek istedim ve öğrendim.

............................................................................................................
UNABILITY IN PAST TENSE -2-

(gitmek) I wanted to go to Ankara but I couldnt.

............................................................................................................

(sigara içmek) I wanted to smoke but I couldnt.

............................................................................................................


(bulmak) I wanted to find a doctor but I couldnt.

............................................................................................................


(uyumak) I wanted to sleep but I couldnt.

............................................................................................................


(yemek yapmak) I wanted to cook a nice diner but I couldnt.

............................................................................................................


Sen televizyon izledin mi?

Evet izledim. Hayır izlemedim. Hayır izleyemedim.


Sen uyudun mu?

Evet.................................. Hayır ..................................
Hayır ..................................


Sen kitap okudun mu?

Evet.................................. Hayır ..................................
Hayır ..................................


Sen spor yaptın mı?

Evet.................................. Hayır ..................................
Hayır ..................................







Thread: Diş ağrısı

1196.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 11:03 pm

Thank you deli. I like it when people point to my mistakes at English. For a year or so I was saying "I have readed" and noone had reminded me.
Recently in another forum I said "I also don't think so" or something like that and somebody told me not to use also in negative sentences but to use 'either'.



Thread: A short story for Turkish learners

1197.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 10:50 pm

Greetings,

This story (and another one) is now added to our stories page:

http://www.turkishclass.com/story.php?id=6

Grammar is very easy. There are a few suffixes, the past tense suffix -di being the main one.
aldı > from "almak"
almak > dictionary form (infinitive)
al : verb stem (drop the infinitive suffixes -mek or -mak)
aldı: past tense suffix is attached.
aldım: personal suffix is added.

One or two case suffixes and plural suffix is also used. The story is designed to suit the complete beginners. I have a few more of these. Some feedback would be nice.

You can also some find simple question at the end of the story. Bye.



Thread: Diş ağrısı

1198.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 10:20 pm

Quoting bod:

Dün gece ben uyumayabildım çünkü bendim kötü diş ağrısı oldum Bugün çok yorunum ama çalişmeliyim çünkü yarın benim bir imtihan olum.



Dün gece hiç uyumadım çünkü dişim çok ağrıdı. Bugün çok yorgunum ama ders çalışmalıyım çünkü yarın bir imtihanım var.

uyumak > uyu ma dı m > verb stem + negative suffix + simple past tense suffix + first singular person, personal suffix

ağrımak > ağrı + dı (nbo personal suffix because dişim (my teeth) is the third singular person (it).

'Sınavım' can be used instead imtahanım as imtahanım is old fashioned.

çalışmalıyım : çalış + malı + y+ ım
verg good constructed.



Thread: Diş ağrısı

1199.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 08:36 pm

"İyi olmana sevindim. "
"I'm glad you are fine. "

This above is a common and correct usage.

ol + ma+ n+ a : verb stem + verbal noun suffix 'ma' + second person possesive suffix 'n' + dative case suffix 'a'

olmak: infinitive
ol : verb stem
olma: the state of being
olman: you being something
olmana: for(to) you being something
iyi olmana : for you being good



Thread: I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive

1200.       erdinc
2151 posts
 11 Jan 2006 Wed 08:06 pm

Here you can see a list of possessive suffixes after a consonant and vowel:

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/possadj.htm
Quote from that page:

Quote:


Suffix Added to Words
ending in Consonants

-ım -im -um -üm - my
-ın -in -un -ün - your
-ı -i -u -ü - his/her/its
-ımız -imiz -umuz -ümüz - our
-ınız -iniz -unuz -ünüz - your
-ları -leri - their

Suffix added to Words
ending in Vowels

-m
-n
-sı -si -su- -sü
-mız- miz -muz -müz
-nız -niz -nuz -nüz
-ları -leri



On writing the word Türkçe, I can give you a list. Notice that it should be written in capital letters and there is no apostrophe as it appears below.

Türkçe
Türkçede
Türkçeyi
Türkçenin
Türkçemin
Türkçem
Türkçen
Türkçesi
Türkçeye
...

Why is this so?
Let me explain. In Turkish there are two kinds of suffixes.

inflexional suffixes (çekim ekleri)
constructive suffixes (yapım ekleri)

Personal suffixes, case suffixes, plural suffix etc. fall into the first group. These are the kind of suffixes that dont change the meaning of the word they are attached to.
Example:
araba car
arabam: my car
Türkiye: Turkia
Türkiye'de : in Turkia

Constructive suffixes are used to build new words from other words. Example:
göz : eye
gözlük : glasses (spectacles)

kitap : book
kitaplık : bookcase

Ankara: Ankara
Ankaralı: somebody originally from Ankara

In our last example we have seen a constuctive suffix used with a proper noun. This is the detail we are looking for.

If a constructive suffix is used with a proper noun, then we don't use an apastrophe but still write the word with capital letters. More interestingly, no matter what other suffix is added afterwards this sitaution (after proper noun and constructive suffix) we don't use the apastrophe anymore.
Compare these two:
Ankara'da : in ankara
Ankaralıda: at that person who is originally from Ankara

Now, some people say the word Türkçe is generated from Türk so in 'Türkçe' we have the word Türk and the constructive suffix çe. Therefore following the rule above that says when a constructive suffix is used with a proper noun this constructive suffix and any other suffixes added afterwards are written without an apostrophe. Therefore we write it Türkçede, Türkçeyi, etc. with capital and without apostrophe.

This is the official usage. Of coures some people disagree with this and say Türkçe is a proper noun on its own. Also some people are unaware of this rule and they just following simple logic that says Türkçe is a proper noun so let's write it with apostrophe.
My suggestion is to follow the official way and write it with capital letters and without apostrophe even when it has other suffixes attached as in Türkçede.

I think these extremely detailed grammar is unneccessary for learning Turkish. When I was learning English I didn't know that do and have were auxiliary verbs. I only knew them as ordinary verbs.
So for a few months I thought "I have a car" and "I have read that book" have the same have in them. I wasn't curious at all and just keep reading my Sherlock Holmes books.
I think too much details will tire you down. I hope to make some lessons where only the neccessary gramman accompanies the reading materials but I myself am tired down with other unneccessary issues.



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