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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: Another dictionary question

1141.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jan 2006 Wed 03:49 pm

Hi bod,
I think the reason is that the aorist tense has too many rules on adding the correct suffix. The number of syllables and the last consonant has an affect. So probably it is to make clear which suffix to add.

http://www.turkishclass.com/grammar_presentSimpleTense.htm

I think there is no information for havlamak becuase here you simply add -r > havlar

Havlarlar is correct but there is a problem. Havla+ r+ lar : verb stem + aorist tense suffix + 3.th person plural suffix
The problem with havlarlar is that we use the singular with animals and objects. If the animals have individual personalities (if their names are known to the listener and speaker) than both singular and plural would be acceptable as it is for human.
In general, for human we can use singular or plural very conjugation for third plural person.

Quote:

köpeğim havluyorlar
köpeğim havlarlar
my dogs are barking



a dog : köpek
my dog: köpek+im : köpeğim

dogs : köpekler
my dogs: köpeklerim

"Köpeklerim havluyor", "köpekler havluyor", "köpeğim havluyor" and "köpek havluyor" would be correct.

"Köpekler havlar" (Dogs bark) would be also correct.



Thread: the use of 'ya' ?!?

1142.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jan 2006 Wed 02:57 pm

When used after certain words, for instance like in "hadi ya" or "yapma ya", it expresses surprise, shock or difficulty in believing on something. It's like saying "I don't believe this".
I would translate both "hadi ya" and "yapma ya" as "really?".

-Tomorrow, Sezen Aksu comes to London.
-Really? Hadi ya!

"Be" in "hadi be" or "yapma be" also expresses surprise with the difference that something must has been missed when you were so close to achieve it. Assuming a footballer misses a goal. At this moment the fans will jump from their seats and will say yapma be!

When added to the end of a sentence 'ya' strenghtens the meaning.

Example:
"Bu müzik çok güzel ya."
"Boşver ya."

When used at the beginning of a sentence it is a preperation to the speech as the person you speak is probably somewhere close but not in sight.



Thread: hızlı ve çabuk

1143.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jan 2006 Wed 01:41 pm

Deli_kizin,
yes the information you gave is correct. The suffix -ca, -ce, -ça, -çe makes adverbs (zarf or belirteç) out of nouns or adjectives. It has also other functions and this is one of its functions only.
By the way instead çabukça we normally say çabucak. So this one is irregular. Çabuk is also an adjective and an adverb at the same time. Not all adjectives are like this.




Thread: Some threads have moved here from cultural forums

1144.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 07:54 pm

Hi,
this thread is sticky for a limited time. After a month or so it could be unsticked. So still we will have the list but it wont be sticky.

Afterwards you have these options to find them again:
1.
a. You could add the threads to your favorites in your internet browser.
b. You could add this thread to your favorites.

2. You could save this list to your notepad. Your notepad is on the top-right.

3. You could click on your own name on "online users" on right. You will see a message like this:
Posts in the site forum: 805 (See forum posts)
Click on "see forum posts" to see your own forum posts.
Here you can search the topics you have posted before. If there are too many pages to view click on view all on top and all your messages so far will open in one page. Press "CTRL + F" to search a keyword.

4. In off-topic forum on the top click on view all. This will open all threads in this forum section in a single page.
Press "CTRL + F" and enter a word to search.



Thread: Declining an offer

1145.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 05:14 pm

Hi bod,
Brand names don't follow the volwel harmony rules. For instance 'tamek' is a brand name and it doesnt follow the rule. There could be many reasons why it doesnt. Maybe it is made up of two different words, maybe it is adopted from another language. There are many proper names that don't follow the rule themselves but the suffixes will.
Example:
'İstanbul' has both deep and sharp vowels. Suffixes count only to the last vowel and the last consonant.
Examples:
İstanbul'da (Because 'u' we use 'da' with 'a' and not 'de')
Marmaris'te (Because 'i' we use 'te' and not 'ta' and because 's' we use 'te' and not 'de') So vowel harmony determines the vowel in the suffix and consonant harmony determines the consonant in the suffix (if the suffix starts witha consonant).

We have also many nouns in Turkish that don't follow the vowel harmony rules.
Example:
domates
patates
sigara
bira
Of course when you ad a suffix you still have to follow the vowel and consonant harmony rules. Suffixes always follow the rules. Of course there are exceptions. For instance the present continuous tense suffix -iyor (example: geliyor) breaks the rule by having a deep and sharp vowel at the same time but follows the rule by changing according to the last vowel (-ıyor, -iyor, -uyor, -üyor).
So we say domates+ler (nor domateslar) , domates+in (nor domatesın) , bira+yı (not birayi) , bira+mı (not birami),... etc. and match the last vowels.

There is also a consonant harmony rule with suffixes. If a suffix starts with a consonant it has two forms.
voiced consonant: p, ç, t, k, h, s, ş, f

A word ending with a voiced consonant, when taking a suffix that starts with a consonant, takes the suffix that starts with a voiced consonant. İn other words, you match voiced consonants with each other and vice-versa.

So your example should be "Floss'tan" :
"Floss'tan neden hoşlanmıyorsun?"



Thread: merhaba yardıma ihtiyacım var bana yardım edermisiniz

1146.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:27 pm

Nice translation SuiGeneris.



Thread: merhaba yardıma ihtiyacım var bana yardım edermisiniz

1147.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 07:20 am

"sabah namazını kıldığınız zaman,rızıklarınızı talepten gafil olup uyumayınız."

Cümle biraz bozuk kurulmuş. Daha düzgün bir cümle yazarsanız çevirmesi daha kolay olur. Özellikle gafil ve rızık kelimelerinin yerlerine Türkçe karşılıklar düşÃ¼nebilirsiniz.

Sabah namazını kıldıktan sonra uyumayınız.
Don't sleep again after the morning pray.



Thread: Where I can find website for learning & listening Turkish in first begining?

1148.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 07:07 am

sound files can be found here:
1. http://www.turkishclass.com/pronounciation.php
2. http://cali.arizona.edu/maxnet/tur/



Thread: Declining an offer

1149.       erdinc
2151 posts
 24 Jan 2006 Tue 02:34 am

Quoting bod:

I someone were to ask me:
Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?
Do you want cherry juice?

Which would be the polite way of declining the offer and what in the difference in these meanings in this context???

Yok sağol!
Hayır teşekkürler!


No thanks!



The main difference between the two is the distance. In the first you are getting more personal while in the second you keep the distance.

"Yok sağol" is informal. You could use it if the person is a close friend of you or you are equal in position. So you normally wont say sağol to your boss or to the waiter, nor they should say sağol to you.
It would be very normal if somebody touches your shoulder while saying "yok sağol".

"Yok sağolun", with sağolun as the plural form of sağol is more polite and formal than sağol. It is more formal than sağol but at the same time it is still friendy. As you know already when speaking to a single person we use the plural second person to make speech more polite. So "Yok, sağolun." or "Hayır, sağolun." would be a good alternative. Sağolun when used to a singe person is a word you are likely to use to people you know and have respect. People in a lower position can use sağolun to others in a higher position. Of course to close friends you don't say sağolun (the plural).

"Hayır, teşekkürler." is clearly more formal than both of the above. I would recommend using this as it is more safe to use. You could say it to close friends, to the waiter, to your boss or to anyone else. It is formal and polite. Also "Hayır, çok teşekkür ederim." can be considered.

In Turkish when to people are having a conversation there are two ways of speech. One is "sen'li konuşma" or "sen'li-ben'li konuşma" and the other is "siz'li konuşma". Usually when you met somebody you start talking in plurals (siz'li) and then after a while you continue with singulars if you want to be informal. When you switch from plurals to singulars this is a sign of being more friendly to each other.


Assuming two people are talking:

-Kola ister misin?
-Yok, sağol.
Both people are informal and friendly.

-Kola ister misin?
-Yok, sağolun. (Here the informal approach of the first person is declined by the second person by using plural after a singular usage). Normally yok and sağolun don't suit nicely to each other. Yok is a more strong word and normally hayır should be used with sağolun. Maybe the second person feels uncomfortable and wants to decline the offer in a strong way or maybe s/he hesitated for a while and then suddenly said yok sağolun. It is unclear. Not a good sign about the second person to use yok together with a more polite word.

-Kola ister misiniz?
-Yok, sağol. (Here the second person looks like not being very sophisticated as mixing singular and plurals. The question is plural so the first person keeps the distance but the answer is singular and second person doesnt understand the first person's intention. Not a good sign about the second person).

-Kola ister misin?
-Hayır, teşekkürler.
(First person is trying to be informal. Second person's response doesnt tell much about his approach except that s/he is polite.)

-Kola ister misiniz?
-Hayır, teşekkürler.
Both people are formal and polite.

edit:
Instead "Vişne nektarı istiyor musun?" I suggest "Vişne suyu ister misin?".



Thread: What's with TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS in Turkey

1150.       erdinc
2151 posts
 23 Jan 2006 Mon 09:58 pm

The two tables above show Netherlands the safest place after Malta. UK is also close to the top.
Netherlands has a death rate under 5 which means death per 100.000 per year in road traffic accidents. Turkia has a rate of 13 while USA and Greece have around 15.



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