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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: translation tur-eng please

1081.       erdinc
2151 posts
 31 Jan 2006 Tue 09:55 pm

I think the Turkish sentence is stronger than this.

"Terbiyesiz. O dediğin sensin. Ahlaksiz."
"Bastard. Thats you, you immoral."




Thread: Tenses inTurkish

1082.       erdinc
2151 posts
 31 Jan 2006 Tue 04:41 pm

Quoting bod:

I was thinking more about -sene , -mekte and -esi

-mekte especially I have seen used in written text and my grammar book says it is becoming more common in daily speech.



Hi bod,
yes, as you say, the -mekte suffix is a present continuous suffix like -iyor. Some time ago we had talked about it here:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_402
Yes it is becoming common. I could add it maybe.

-sene as a version of imperative is common:
sen git : you go
sen gitsene : you go (I'm surprised/dissapointed/angry because of you refusing to go so far, or suggesting me to go)

-esi :
"Hep böyle koşasın."
The tendency is towards omiting this suffix as a mood of verb.



Thread: Tenses inTurkish

1083.       erdinc
2151 posts
 31 Jan 2006 Tue 02:55 pm

ladywriter,
thank you for suggesting a website. The link you gave is already in our list in number two:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_1448

Of course I have checked them all because I had to. I have also checked many other sources in Turkish before I gave the last form to my tables you see above. Even the sources in Turkish have many mistakes let alone websites created by foreigners. There is no standart chart on this field. The version you see above is not available anywhere else.

I hope it will make it easier than verbix for the learners to learn the tenses. Verbix and my charts are different in a number of ways. First of all I havent yet included the question, negative and negative question conjugations.

Other than that verbix following some old dated Turkish sources lists the third person plural personal suffix -lar in the incorrect place.
It suggests geletiler, gelecekmişler, gelecekseler etc. but it should be the other way. I have listed them as geleceklerdi, geleceklermiş, geleceklerse,... with the ler in front of the tense suffix.

Other than that there are many incorrect and outdated entries on verbix. Of course this is not a mistake by the people who created verbix but the Turkish sources are outdated as well.
For instance verbix following Turkish sources suggest the following:
Subjunctive mood tenses

ben geleyim
sen gelesin
o gele
biz gelelim
siz gelesiniz
onlar geleler

I have omitted these except both first persons: ben geleyim, biz gelelim. We don't use the others. We don't say, "sen gelesin", "o gele", "siz gelesiniz", "onlar geleler". These are replaced with imperatives: "Sen gel", "o gelsin", "siz gelin", "onlar gelsin" (or "onlar gelsinler").

If verbix or any other place had the correct version of tenses there wouldnt be a need for me to create new charts. But I couldn't find a single correct chart anywhere.

If you check my imperatives and subjunctives on the first table you will see that they two make a whole tense together. They could be put together with a single name. As far as I know this is the first time the problem with imperatives and subjunctives is solved this way. There is an argument for years about the imperatives and subjunctives.

Erdinç



Thread: Tenses inTurkish

1084.       erdinc
2151 posts
 31 Jan 2006 Tue 02:43 pm

Hi Bod,
winmekmak has some modifiers. These are on the lower list shown in purple. The first three modifiers are the ones I have mentioned above. The last two modifiers -diyse and -mişse are the ones I have omitted.

example:
main tense: present continuous, modifier -diyse:
gelmek: geliyorduysam, geliyorduysan, ...

main tense: present continuous, modifier -mişse:
gelmek: geliyormuşsam, geliyormuşsan, ...

These double modifiers -diyse (-di + -se) and (-miş + -se) can be omitted.



Thread: Merhaba herkese

1085.       erdinc
2151 posts
 31 Jan 2006 Tue 07:02 am

Merhaba Lyndie,
Geç fark ettim, üzgünüm. Nasılsın? Umarım iyi vakit geçiriyorsundur.
Ayvalık, çok güzel bir yer değil mi? Ben Ayvalık'ta en çok dar sokakları ve eski evleri seviyorum. Akşam olunca kadınlar bu sokaklarda oturup sohbet ediyorlar. Kadınlar kapıların önünde oturuyorlar değil mi?
Ayvalık'ın iç sokaklarında gezerken insan zamanın geçtiğini unutabilir.

Umarım tatilin iyi geçer. HoşÃ§akal.
Erdinç



Thread: Tenses inTurkish

1086.       erdinc
2151 posts
 30 Jan 2006 Mon 10:13 pm

I was trying to explain to Bod the Turkish tenses and I realised the existing sources were not suitable enough for this study. So here we have Turkish tenses once again shown my way:

Simple Tenses
- - 1.singular 2.singular 3.singular 1.plural 2.plural 3.plural
simple past -di geldim geldin geldi geldik geldiniz

geldi

/geldiler

aorist/simple present -er gelirim gelirsin gelir geliriz gelirsiniz

gelir

/gelirler

present continuous -iyor geliyorum geliyorsun geliyor geliyoruz geliyorsunuz geliyor /geliyorlar
reported past -miş gelmişim gelmişsin gelmiş gelmişiz gelmişsiniz gelmiş /gelmişler
future -ecek geleceğim geleceksin gelecek geleceğiz geleceksiniz gelecek /gelecekler
conditional -se gelsem gelsen gelse gelsek gelseniz

gelse

/gelseler

necessitive -meli gelmeliyim gelmelisin gelmeli gelmeliyiz gelmelisiniz gelmeli /gelmeliler
imperative - - gel gelsin -

gelin

geliniz

gelsin

/gelsinler

subjunctive - geleyim - - gelelim - -

We have three auxiliaries to make compound tenses from simple tenses. Now, one by one we will apply these three auxiliaries to the simple tenses.

Narrative Auxiliary -di
Reportive Auxiliary -miş
Conditional Auxiliary -se

 

 

Narrative Auxiliaries (-di) of Simple Tenses:

- - 1.singular 2.singular 3.singular 1.plural 2.plural 3.plural
simple past - - - - - - -
aorist/simple present -er+ -dı gelirdim < span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Georgia;">gelirdin gelirdi gelirdik gelirdiniz

gelirdi

/gelirlerdi

present continuous -iyor+ -du geliyordum geliyordun geliyordu geliyorduk geliyordunuz

geliyordu

/geliyorlardı

reported past -miş+ -di gelmiştim gelmiştin gelmişti gelmiştik gelmiştiniz

gelmişti

/gelmişlerdi

future -ecek+ -di gelecektim gelecektin gelecekti gelecektik gelecektiniz gelecekti /geleceklerdi
conditional -se + -di
gelseydim gelseydin gelseydi gelseydik gelseydiniz

gelseydi

/gelselerdi

necessitive -meli + -di gelmeliydim gelmeliydin gelmeliydi gelmeliydik gelmeliydiniz

gelmeliydi

/gelmeliydiler

imperative - - - - - - -
subjunctive - - - - - - -

 

 

Reported (-miş ) Auxiliaries of Simple Tenses
- - 1.singular 2.singular 3.singular 1.plural 2.plural 3.plural
simple past - - - - - - -
aorist/simple present -er + -miş gelirmişim gelirmişsin gelirmiş gelirmişiz gelirmişsiniz

gelirmiş

/gelirlermiş

present continuous -iyor + -miş geliyormuşum geliyormuşsun geliyormuş geliyormuşuz geliyormuşsunuz

geliyormuş

/geliyorlarmış

reported past - - - - - - --
future -ecek + -miş gelecekmişim gelecekmişsin gelecekmiş gelecekmişiz gelecekmişsiniz

gelecekmiş

/geleceklermiş

conditional -se + -miş gelseymişim gelseymişsin gelseymiş gelseymişiz gelseymişsiniz

gelseymiş

/gelselermiş

necessitive -meli + -miş gelmeliymişim gelmeliymişsin gelmeliymiş gelmeliymişiz gelmeliymişsiniz

gelmeliymiş

/gelmelilermiş

imperative - - - - - - -
subjunctive - - - - - - -

 

 

Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of Simple Tenses
- - 1.singular 2.singular 3.singular 1.plural 2.plural 3.plural
simple past -di + -se geldiysem geldiysen geldiyse geldiysek geldiyseniz geldiyse /geldilerse
aorist/simple present -er + -se gelirsem gelirsen gelirse gelirsek gelirseniz

gelirse

/gelirlerse

present continuous -iyor + -sa geliyorsam geliyorsan geliyorsa geliyorsak geliyorsanız geliyorsa /geliyorlarsa
reported past -miş + -se gelmişsem gelmişsen gelmişse gelmişsek gelmişseniz gelmişse /gelmişlerse
future -ecek + -se geleceksem geleceksen gelecekse geleceksek gelecekseniz gelecekse /geleceklerse
conditional - - - - - - -
necessitive -meli + -se gelmeliysem gelmeliysen gelmeliyse gelmeliysek gelmeliyseniz gelmeliyse /gelmeliyseler
imperative - - - - - - -
subjunctive - - - - - - -

Later I hope to add translations. Maybe I should remove conjugations and just put personal suffixes so the learners might find the conjugations themselves and the tables would be much smaller. But I´m not sure which way would be easier. At the beginning we had only simple tenses. Afterwards we have derived compound tenses using three different auxiliaries. The conditional auxiliary (-se) could ve applied to the compound tenses once again. This way theoretically it is possible to have double compound tenses but I will omit them as the modern tendency is towards this direction. I have also omitted some other tenses above wich aren´t included in modern Turkish. I have made some changes on the order of suffixes. Many sources show the third person plural suffix (-ler) in the wrong order. This order has changed with time and it is like above in modern Turkish. Some sources show a narrative simple past tense (geldiydim). There is no such tense in Turkish. It will be incorrect using them. Some sources suggest a narrative subjunctive (geleydim, geleydin, geleydi,...) but with time this tense is replaced with the narrative condition (gelseydim, gelseydin, gelseydi,...). So it is omited as well. These are some of the reasons why the other sources were not suitable. Please don´t quote this message if you want to post something.



Thread: A short story for Turkish learners

1087.       erdinc
2151 posts
 30 Jan 2006 Mon 08:40 pm

You post your questions in the related forums. In the starting post I have warned readers not to read other people's answers so it is alright to post your answers here.
My other stories look too silly to me right now. I need to reconsider them.



Thread: etmeki pişirme

1088.       erdinc
2151 posts
 30 Jan 2006 Mon 06:39 pm

Yes Bod,
in my above post I too suggested "otlu ekmek".



Thread: I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive

1089.       erdinc
2151 posts
 30 Jan 2006 Mon 06:34 pm

Your understanding is correct. Unfortunately the dictionary entries like /e/i/den etc. dont cover all possibilities. I don't know why they don't. The information given there is correct but it is usually not the whole of possibilities.

I think it is meant to show whether a verb does or doesnt take an object.

/i/ okumak : obviously takes the accusative (direct objects) as you have understood correctly. So "kitabı okumak" would be correct.

There are small nuances. "kitap okumak" is the act of reading books while "kitabı okumak" is defined. The speaker is talking about a certain book. Here it is "the book" and not "a book". There should be some speech supporting the fact that it is a known book. Otherwise it would not a correct expression.

Because you are using the accusative case it is a defined object. This is contradictory with the English term "a book". A book is any book. Either you can read any book or a certain book.

Therefore the first option would fit better.
1. Kitap okuyorum.
I'm reading a book.

2. Bu kitabı okuyorum.
I'm reading this book. (Here look at the book. It is here.)

3. Kitabı okuyorum.
I'm reading the book (and you know what book I'm talking about).



Thread: Vowel group practice

1090.       erdinc
2151 posts
 30 Jan 2006 Mon 06:12 pm

No there are no other suffixes with o. Turkish doesnt like the vowels o and ö after the first syllable. So this rule is not only affecting the suffixes but all Turkish words as well. There are words that have o and ö after the first syllable but these words are adopted from other languages.

Example: doktor, koro, telefon, motor

Of course I'm not counting the present continous tenses geliyor, gidiyor,... as we already mentioned this as an exception.



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