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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: Can someone translate my letter into Turkey please. I want to send it off to my boyfriend today..

1051.       erdinc
2151 posts
 10 Feb 2006 Fri 12:55 am

I normally leave the casual translations to others but upon request, here is your translation. By the way, there are some phone cards and call numbers to call Turkia cheaper from abroad if you didn't already know. Cheers.


"Tatlım, senin mektubuna cevap olarak yazıyorum. Öncelikle seni çok özlediğimi ve her zaman seni düşÃ¼ndüğümü bilmeni isterim. Çok yakın iki kız arkadaşıma senden bahsettim ve onları on yıldan daha uzun süredir tanıyorum. Tatlım, sana yazamadığım için üzgünüm. Bunun tek nedeni iş aramakla çok meşgul olmam. Bir hafta içinde yeni bir iş bulmayı umuyorum. Lütfen seni önemsemediğimi düşÃ¼nme olur mu? Seninle sohbet etmeyi seviyorum. Benim biricik aşkımsın sen. Seninle konuşmak beni öyle mutlu ediyor ki.
Türkiye'den telefon etmek senin için pahalı olmuyor mu tatlım? Beni sıkça aramak konusunda kendini zorunlu hissetme olur mu? Bebeğimin yığınla para harcamasını hiç istemem. Canım, MSN'de konuşup tasarruf yapmalıyız. Telefonda konuşmayı ben de istiyorum ama çok fazla olmasın olur mu çünkü ikimiz için de çok pahalı olacak. Kısa mesaj da gönderebiliriz. Canım, İngilizce derslerin nasıl gidiyor merak ediyorum. Memnun musun şu ana kadar? Zor mu? Lütfen öğretmeni iyi dinle ve anlamadığın bir şey olursa ona sor olur mu?
Tatlım, benimle konuşmaktaki amacın ve seni yönlendiren şey nedir bilmek istiyorum. Bana karşı güçlü duygular hissettiğine inanıyorum ama acaba aramızdaki dil ve mesafe engelini hiç düşÃ¼ndün mü? Benimle nasıl bir gelecek düşÃ¼nüyorsun? İkimizin nasıl bir geleceği olabilir sence? Lütfen anlat bana. Cevabını bekleyeceğim. Lütfen unutma olur mu, her zaman kalbimdesin."



Thread: uyku ve emek

1052.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Feb 2006 Thu 09:43 pm

Greetings,
Except mine, frogman's sentences are very well build as well. In fact I don't know which ones are better. I think his sentences could be easier for learners.

Quoting erdinc:

Şimdi yatmalıyım çünkü çok yorgunum.
Yarın sabah erkenden yapmam gereken bazı yorucu işler var.
Sabah saatlerini hiç sevmiyorum.
İyi geceler herkese.


Quoting frogman:

Şimdi yatağa gitmeliyim çünkü çok yorgunum
Yarın sabah erken kalkıp çok çalışmam lazım
Sabahlardan hoşlanmıyorum
Herkese iyi geceler



When I wanted to translate "I don't like mornings" I wanted to make it as "Sabahları hiç sevmiyorum". This would be the accusative case (i case) . It has the same structure as "Kedileri hiç sevmiyorum". The problem with this sentence is that it is unclear because sabahları (the mornings) can also mean "in the mornings". For instance "Sabahları koşarım". These two "sabahları" have different meanings. To overcome that problem I changed it to "sabah saatlerini" (the morning times).
To be honest I missed the other option. Hoşlanmak takes the -dan case. So frogman's version was the simple sentence that I missed.

"Sabah saatleri" is a noun modification. It means "morning times". Here are a few more noun modifications:

web sitesi
portakal rengi
Türk kahvesi
trafik lambası
çocuk doktoru
çocuk şarkısı (şarkı+sı : noun+ possessive suffix)
çocuk şarkıları (şarkı+lar+ı noun+ plural suffix+ possessive suffix)

Noun modifications take the possessive suffixes. All the examples above have the possessive suffixes. "Sabah saatleri" has as well the possessive suffix -i. Elisa gave a perfect explaination. The -n is a buffer letter and the last -i is the accusative (direct object) case in "sabah saatlerini".

"Yarın sabah erkenden yapmam gereken bazı yorucu işler var."
In this sentence the verb is "var".
There are some works which I have to do early in the morning.

"yapmam gereken bazı yorucu işler" is a noun phrase and means "some tiring works that I have to do". The noun "işler" is modified by the verbal adjective phrase "yapmam gereken" and by the adjectives "bazı" and "yorucu".

Here are a few more examples:
okumam gereken kitap: a book that I need to read
okunması gereken kitap : a book that needs to be read

bitirmen gereken işler : work that you need to complete
bitirilmesi gereken işler : work that needs to be completed

yapman gereken ödev : homework that you need to do
yapılması gereken ödev : homework thats needs to be done

In these exampes the nouns kitap, iş and ödev are defined with verbal adjectives. Now the book is not any ordinary book but it is the book I need to read.
It is the same as saying "kırmızı kitap". There is a noun and a modifier.
"Kırmızı kitap" nerede?
"Okumam gereken kitap" nerede?

Here let me show you the difference between the short infinitive (ma) and the verbal noun suffix (ma).

Okuman çok güzel. > Your reading (the way you read) is very nice.
Here "okuman" is a verbal noun.
Oku+ma+n : your reading, the way you read
verb stem oku+ verbal noun suffix -ma + posessive suffix -n

***
Bu kitabı okuman ne kadar sürer?
How long will it take for you to read this book?
Here "okuman" is the short infinitive.
oku+ma+n: you to read, to read by you, you reading
verb stem oku + short infinitive -ma + possessive suffix -n

Please notice that in the above examples if you use passive voice the verbal-adjective will be independent from any person. "Okunması gereken kitap" isn't attached to any person. It passive voice has the possessive suffix of third person singular but isn't related to this person. The passive voive is more formal.

Yapmam gereken işler var.
There are some works I have to do.

Yapması gereken işler var.
There are some works he has to do.

Yapılması gereken işler var.
There are some works that need to be done.


Possessive Suffixes
after a consonant
my – benim -ım -im -um -üm
your – senin -ın -in -un -ün
his/her/its – onun -ı -i -u -ü -
our – bizim -ımız -imiz -umuz -ümüz
your – sizin -ınız -iniz -unuz -ünüz
their – onların -ları -leri -ları -leri

after a vowel
my – benim -m
your – senin -n
his/her/its – onun -sı -si –su -sü
our – bizim -mız- miz -muz -müz
your – sizin -nız -niz -nuz -nüz
their – onların -ları -leri



Thread: About Turkish pronounciation

1053.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Feb 2006 Thu 08:31 pm

There are some sound files here as well:

http://cali.arizona.edu/maxnet/tur/



Thread: uyku ve emek

1054.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Feb 2006 Thu 03:52 am

Quoting bod:

Şimdi yataka gitmeliyim çünkü çok yorgunum.
Erken yarın sabah güç çalışmam lazım.
Sabahlardan hoşlanmarım!
İyi geceler herkes



Şimdi yatmalıyım çünkü çok yorgunum. Yarın sabah erkenden yapmam gereken bazı yorucu işler var.
Sabah saatlerini hiç sevmiyorum.
İyi geceler herkese.



Thread: quick translation please.

1055.       erdinc
2151 posts
 08 Feb 2006 Wed 06:01 am

"Greetings but who are you and who has given you my address? If you don't answer I will advertise your e-mail around. Did you understood me? I'm waiting for your answer."



Thread: here I am again for a translation please

1056.       erdinc
2151 posts
 07 Feb 2006 Tue 09:40 pm

Having a lough is likely to cause misunderstanding in the translation. It has too many meanings. Maybe you could explain with other words.

Is it something like this you want to say:

Şaka mı yapıyorsun? : Are you kidding?

more polite:
Umarım şaka yapıyorsundur. I hope you are kidding.



Thread: Lütfen

1057.       erdinc
2151 posts
 07 Feb 2006 Tue 09:22 pm

Elisa,
This could be. Assuming someone's dog has died and the person starts to see an imaginative dog walking inside the house. She is talking to a dog that already died. In this case obviously we can't use rüya since this is not a dream in sleep and we shouldnt use hayal as hayal is something that you imagine and hope it will become reality.

In this example and in mental illnesses, in drug imaginations and in transendental imaginations I would use düş görmek. But of course düş is not limited with this. It is also used for creative imagination in arts and literature.

Said that I must add that the main translation for the verb "to imagine" would be "hayal etmek". Düş and any verbal forms of it are not so common.



Thread: must, should, have to, need to

1058.       erdinc
2151 posts
 07 Feb 2006 Tue 08:58 pm

"zorunda olmak" is the strongest. Above I have translated must with only "zorunda olmak".

must < > zorunda olmak

have to < > a. zorunda olmak b. gerekli olmak

need to < > gerekli olmak

"zorunda kalmak" is different than "zorunda olmak" because it expresses unwillingness. When you say "zorunda kaldım" you mean that there was no other choice so you had to do something.



Thread: must, should, have to, need to

1059.       erdinc
2151 posts
 07 Feb 2006 Tue 08:28 pm

Greetings,
I have written on this issue before. The text below is a copy of a previous post of mine. Please notice the change on meanings of English words when they are negative (the difference between must and must not etc.)
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_2058

That's a very good question which could be a topic of a lesson if somebody would have write it.

1. must > zorunda olmak (zorundasın, zorundayım etc)
I must go. > Gitmek zorundayım
You must stay here. > Burada durmak zorundasın.

The negative changes the meaning completely and tells us that something is forbidden.
must not > -me+meli (koşmamalı, gitmemeli, yapmamalı Here -me is the negative while -meli expresses neccessity.
You must not move. > Haraket etmemelisin.

2. have to > a. zorunda olmak b. gerekli olmak
You have to go. >
a. Gitmek zorundasın. (You must go)
b. Gitmen gerekiyor. (You need to go)

I can't find a better translation for have to. So either I translate it as must to or need to when affirmative.

The negative can be build same way.
You don't have to go. >
a. Gitmek zorunda değilsin. (You don't have to go. Obviously this can't be translated with must not and vice versa)
b. Gitmen gerekmiyor. (You don't need to go)

3. need to > gerekli olmak
You need to go. > Gitmen gerekiyor.
I need to go. > Gitmem gerekiyor.

Negative can be build the same way:
You don't need to go. > Gitmen gerekmiyor.
I don't need to go. > Gitmem gerekmiyor.

4. should
Depends on the meaning of English sentence. Has different usages in English thus varies in translation.

You should go. >
a. Gitmelisin (present)
b. Gitsen iyi olur. (present)
c. gitmeliydin (unreal past, now ,its too late to go)

You shouldn't go.
a. gitmemelisin (present)
b. gitmemeliydin. (unreal past: You shouldn't have gone)

Here notice that "gitmeliydin" and "gitmemeliydin" are unreal past expression where it is too late to act correctly now. Normally in English perfect temses would fit better in this situation but I think people tend to use present tense as well. For instance while "You shouldn't have done this" is the correct sentence for unreal past some may use "You shouldn't do this", thus I have included the unreal past meanings of should and shouldn't as and

5. may
I prefer to translate this with possibility expressions and the suffix is -ebil

You may go. > Gidebilirsin/Gidebilirsiniz.
You may sit here. > Burada oturabilirsin/oturabilirsiniz.
She might come. > Gelebilir.

The negative changes the meaning completely as in English "may not" is used like a polite way of "must not" if I understand correctly. Again if I understand correcty "may not" and "might not" have very different usages in English. I have seen "may not" used as warnings in the context of "Not possible to...", while "might not" sound to me more like "Possible not to...".


You may not enter. >
a. İçeri giremezsiniz. (It is not possible for you to enter)
b. İçeri girmeyiniz. (Please don't enter)

She might not come. > Gelmeyebilir. (There is a possibility that she is not going to come.)

You might not come. > Gelmeyebilirsin. (There is a possibility that you are not going to come.)

Notice that I'm using "may not" as the unpossibility to do something and "might not" as the possibility for something not to be done.

6. Shall
Shall we go? Gidelim mi?


All in all this is an advanced issue. I would suggest starting to practice with -meli -malı (nessassity suffixes).
gitmek > git > git+meli > git+meli+yim
to go > go > need to go > I need to go.

gitmeliyim > I need to go.
gitmelisin > You need to go.

But the negative with the netaive suffix -me and -ma (added like, me+meli ma+malı has a different meaning.

gitmemeliyim > I must not go.
gitmemelisin > You must not go.



Thread: Lütfen

1060.       erdinc
2151 posts
 07 Feb 2006 Tue 08:17 pm

The other suggestions are not bad either but I would prefer this one:

"Dün gece kötü bir rüya gördüm."

Instead "dün gece" if you say "geçen gece" it will be the night before last night. Smillarly "geçen gün" is the day before yesterday.

Yes düş is more poetic. Also düş implies more like an imagination.

In English there is no difference between a dream while you sleep and a dream that you have while you are conscious.

When Martin Luther King said "I have a dream" he didn't mean a dream he had while sleeping. In Turkish we devide them.
'rüya' is strictly for a dream that you have while sleeping.
'düş' is mostly for an imagination when we don't sleep. It can be intuitonal or fictional but in any case we are conscious. The images are in front of our eyes. We have seen them in some ways. Maybe something has inspired us to see the image.

"Dün gece kötü bir düş gördüm." is more likely to be a dream/imagination that you have while not sleeping. If you had given me this sentence and would ask me whether or not the person is likely to sleep during this action I would say 80% not sleeping and 20% sleeping.

Hayal is different than both rüya and düş. Hayal strictly has nothing to do with sleeping. Hayal includes hope for something to become true. "Hayal etmek" and "hayal kurmak" are both common verbs. Also "hayal kırıklığı" means disapointment and "hayalperest" means "dreamer" (the kind of person who is in a dream world).
I would translate Martin Luther King's speech with hayal: "Bir hayalim var"



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