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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: Verb forms and suffix order

631.       erdinc
2151 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 06:18 am

The y buffer is included because historically the narrative tenses was build with "idi" and not "-di" which is the same as past tense.

Narrative tenses are on the pink table on tenses page:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_2565

So historically 'başlasaydım' was 'başlasa idim', like that as two words. Still in some old sources it is possible to see the "idim" but in today's language it is omited.

A google search will still show a few entries for "bakar idim" or "gelir idim" but of course except original historical works it should be 'gelirdim' and 'bakardım'.

'Başlasaydım' is the Narrative Auxiliaries of Conditional Tenses. The -dı here is not the past tense suffix but the narrative tense suffix. Because the Narrative Auxiliary changed from -idi to -di and this is exactly the same as the past tense suffix there has been some confusion on this issue.

'Başlasaydım' means 'if I had started' (I have not started and now its too late). It is the unreal condition.

Example:
Geçen yıl Fransızca öğrenmeye başlasaydım şimdi konuşuyor olurdum.
If I had started learning French last year, now I would be talking.

As you see in the table on tenses page, almost all tenses have a narrative version except the past tense. If it had existed it todays Turkish it would look like 'geldiydim', 'yaptıydım', gördüydüm'. Some poeple use the narrative of past tense but it is replaced now with narrative of reported past tense 'gelmiştim', 'yapmıştım', görmüştüm'. So our Turkish members should not say 'geldiydim' and should say 'gelmiştim'.

'başladıysam' is the Conditional Auxiliary of Simple Past Tense and means 'if I have started'.

Example:
Sinirlenmeye başladıysam, bunun bir nedeni var.
If I have started to become angry, it is for a reason.

The Conditional Auxiliaries have also changed in the history of our language. In 'başladıysam' you see also the buffer 'y'.

"başladı isem" or "başladım ise" are omited versions. Başlamak is not as common as gelmek or yapmak. So if you check a search engine you will see some entries for "geldi isem", "geldim ise", "yaptı isem", and "yaptım ise". Instead these omited versions başladıysam, geldiysem, yaptıysam should be used.



Thread: Verbssss help pls!!

632.       erdinc
2151 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 05:32 am

These eight verbs are not existing in Turkish. I think there might be spelling mistakes. I have added possible correct verbs underneath.

1. düşÃ¼bmek - non-existent

düşÃ¼nmek: to think
düşmek : to fall
düşÃ¼rmek: to drop

2. görümek - non-existent

görmek: to see
görünmek : to be seen
görüşmek - to talk with, to meet with

3. kirtarmak - non-existent

kurtarmak: to rescue, to save

4. küzmek - non-existent

küsmek : to stop talking each other

5. savinmek - non-existent

savunmak : to defend
savmak: to get rid
sevinmek : to feel happy

6. tartımak - non-existent

tartmak : to weigh
tartışmak : to argue

7. unmak - non-existent

ummak : to hope
sunmak : to present

Carla,
carol.trky's list doesn't have a verb listed as 'yardman' not to mention it is non-existent as well.



Thread: translation please

633.       erdinc
2151 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 05:09 am

'Aradıysan' is the Conditional Auxiliary of Simple Past Tense. It would translate as "if you have called me." You might or might not have called me. I don't know that.

'Arasaydın' is the Narrative Auxiliary of Conditional Tense. It is fictional (unreal). It would translate as "If you had called me."

Here is the tenses thread for further reference:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_2565

Eğer can be used with the tenses below and only with them. This means 'eğer' can be used only with 'ise' (if). 'ise' and -se/-sa are the same thing. The first is the conditional conjugator and the second is its suffix version.

It is difficult to translate 'eğer'. I would translate it as "in the case of". I would say 'eğer' is the assumption or possibility of a condition.

I think in these details we see the difference of two languages.

Notice that I'm not translating 'eğer' as 'if'. We have translated 'ise' already as 'if' and 'eğer' is dependent on the existence of 'if'.

Narrative Auxiliaries (-di) of Conditional Tense: arasaydın
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of simple past : aradıysan
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of simple present : ararsan
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of present continuous : arıyorsan
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of reported past :aramışsan
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of future : arayacaksan
Conditional (-se) Auxiliaries of necessitive : aramalıysan



Thread: Türkçe Konuşma

634.       erdinc
2151 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 10:29 pm

Yes, almost correct.

should be "dinlemeye" with a case suffix.

BTW, I guess the English sentence was meant to be "I need to start listening to some slow Turkish dialogues!" with 'to' instear 'or'.



Thread: My essay

635.       erdinc
2151 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 06:30 pm

Information on this issue is available on this page:
http://www.turkishclass.com/memberArticles.html

As you see there is no upper limit for the lenght of an essay. Bye.



Thread: A short story for Turkish learners

636.       erdinc
2151 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 06:17 am

Well done Heart. There are tiny mistakes.


4. Havada çok bulut verdi
> Should be 'vardı' instead 'verdi'.

5. Evet çocuklar el salladi
> Salladı is with ı.

8. Pilot uçakta vardi
> "Uçakta pilot vardı." is the correct word order.

11. Saat çaldi ve Ayşe uyandi
> Saat çaldı ve Ayşe uyandı.

Here is a small hint on Past Tense Suffix -di:
When picking a past tense suffix (there are four versions) we choose it according the last vowel before the -di. This is called vowel harmony. If the last vowel is a or ı we use -dı. Here is the whole list:

a,ı > -dı
e,i > -di
o,u > -du
ö,ü > -dü

Example:
To wake up: uyanmak

Now we drop the infinitive suffix -mak and we have the verb stem which is 'uyan'. Now we can add the past tense suffix. Last vowel in 'uyan' is a. According our list a or ı takes -dı so we say uyandı.

The same applies for question suffix:

a,ı > -mı
e,i > -mi
o,u > -mu
ö,ü > -mü

We say "gördü mü?" because the ü in gördü takes -mü but we say "el salladı mı?" because the ı in salladı takes -mı.



Thread: I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive

637.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 08:39 am

You almost got it right. 'Eğlence' means entertainment. Eğlenceli is 'entertaining'.

"Türkçe öğrenmek çok eğlenceli."



Thread: I. Mastar Hali - The Infinitive

638.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 07:47 am

Yes, it's correct.



Thread: Evetler

639.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 02:13 am

'evetler' means the plural of 'yes'.

evet: yes
-ler: plural suffix

Assuming there is an election and there is more yes than no so we would say:

Evetler hayırlardan daha çok.



Thread: Evetler

640.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 01:58 am

Yes, 'onaylamak' is a common verb whereas 'evetlemek' is forced, artificial and experimental. I doubt %1 of Turks have ever used it.



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