Living - working in Turkey |
Thread locked by a moderator or admin. |
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Buddhist marry Muslim
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| 130. |
04 May 2007 Fri 10:55 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting mltm: The real islam is another thing, the male dominant culture in islamic countries is another thing.
You blame some men in islamic countries to be hypocritical, but in fact watching porn, drinking alcohol, having sex without marriage are all forbidden to men. There are men who really obey these rules, and putting forward these things to someone to make her prevent to convert to İslam is nonsense. I really know men who are not hypocritical and who try to apply the rules as it should be. |
Thank you mltm for exposing more hypocricy in your culture.
I don't know how you manage to make sense out of all the things you guys are claiming. You must be extremely smart!!! So, the male dominant culture has nothing to do with the religion, but I thought you said that women are inferior to men according to islam... And how come men are never inhibited from 'breaking the law', but women are at every occasion...? (remember about the so called 'honor killings' when a woman is killed by her family for having pre-marital sex, but the man she had sex with has no consequences, obviously I don't think either of them should be punished)
So the last line of defense is saying that what you see is not the so called "real islam", that's laughable because none of you really know what "real islam" is. You can't agree on anything consistently and whenever there's a conflict you can't resolve, you say that these things are supposed to be individually interpreted.
To me, it's nonsense to join a group of people that behave hypocritically and don't do what they claim to believe in, even if I liked their religion (it's quite a small population of those who follow everything). |
When you choose a religion, you consider it joining a group? You would be responsable just of yourself after death, in İslam you won't be responsable of the things some terrorists or honor killers have done.
As I said, I do not practise any religion, but I cannot stand the prejudices against all the muslims and I cannot make something seem as it is not just because I don't like it or I want it to seem this way to support my thoughts, this is also hypocritical. I didn't say in İslam women were inferior to men, but as we have said, their duties are different and men protect their women.
And if we go back to some hundreds year, in the name of christianity, we can see how many cruel acts have been done. The cultures have changed but the religion stays the same, so it depends the interpretations.
And don't show the honor killings as a proof because it's the Kurds that do honor killings and it's a part of their cruel beliefs. If it was something that belonged to İslam and which is very unrealistic because according to İslam no one but Allah can take a life) then in all the muslim societies they should have been applied, but Turks do not apply it.
And you're wrong about your claim that always only woman is killed. in Taliban regime, a man that has had sex without marriage is also killed just like the woman. So, that's why we support secularism, because the people tend to use religion as they like.
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| 131. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:05 pm |
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Quoting cat_leo: Quoting mltm: The real islam is another thing, the male dominant culture in islamic countries is another thing.
You blame some men in islamic countries to be hypocritical, but in fact watching porn, drinking alcohol, having sex without marriage are all forbidden to men. There are men who really obey these rules, and putting forward these things to someone to make her prevent to convert to İslam is nonsense. I really know men who are not hypocritical and who try to apply the rules as it should be. |
Oh yeah, where are these men such as you say there are in islamic countries? I have yet to meet one. After being married to 2 very different, but 'hypocritical' turks I have to say that they did exactly all the things mention here, watching porn, drinking alcohol, having sex without marriage (and let me add one more, beating his wife as I was by one of them) that as you say are 'supposably' forbidden to all men. |
It's you that have choosen them. I would never choose such a man because I know them enough, and I can understand such an unworthy man just in a short time. Why haven't I even gone out with such a hypocritical muslim man? So, don't say that you know all the muslim men. And again and again, as long as you find something like this in Kuran "alcohol, sex without marriage, porn, violonce towards your wife are forbidden", no matter how many muslim men you meet with these habits, you cannot change it to a statement like "muslim man are allowed to do all ot these"Everyone is free to do what he wants. My ex boyfriend has not been doing these, so?
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| 132. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:14 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting azade: Honor killings has nothing to do with islam either. |
Then I wonder why nobody in the islamic world criticizes it and tries to do something to prevent them. Only in Turkey, the secular laws are trying to stop these killings by persecuting the murderers. Unfortunately, the family chooses a small child in the family to do the shooting so that nobody goes to prison (yes, the laws aren't that good about it). |
It's a cultural thing. You can find some wack christians who do the same kind of things so does that mean that christianity supports it too?
Quoting cat_leo:
Oh yeah, where are these men such as you say there are in islamic countries? I have yet to meet one. After being married to 2 very different, but 'hypocritical' turks I have to say that they did exactly all the things mention here, watching porn, drinking alcohol, having sex without marriage (and let me add one more, beating his wife as I was by one of them) that as you say are 'supposably' forbidden to all men. |
That you have married some scum in the past doesn't mean that the majority is like that.
I'm really surprised that as turks, people don't know much about actual islam, they just know horror stories they see on tv. You can't critizise something you don't know anything about. The vast majority of muslims are regular people NOT crazy fundamentalists, why hate on them?
By the way I'm not making a general assumption here.
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| 133. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:23 pm |
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I find your fourth paragraph very offending for many people.
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| 134. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:30 pm |
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Quoting Trudy: I find your fourth paragraph very offending for many people. |
Maybe, but we cannot hide the truth. It's a fact and because of their cruel act, I don't want all the turks and muslims be labelled. That tradition belongs to kurdish origined turks.
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| 135. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:34 pm |
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Quoting mltm: And don't show the honor killings as a proof because it's the Kurds that do honor killings and it's a part of their cruel beliefs. |
How can you make such a blatant and generalizing (or should I rather say "narrow-minded?") remark? Yeah, it's been a long time since there was some bashing here so you thought you'd seize the opportunity?
Anyway, sounds like you could do with some extra information on honor killings
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| 136. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:36 pm |
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Quoting mltm:
And don't show the honor killings as a proof because it's the Kurds that do honor killings and it's a part of their cruel beliefs. |
mltm- you act (and thus write) as if you had never lived in Turkey. Because you do know very well that those whom you called Kurds and implied as murderers generally extremer believers than those who live in other regions of turkey, for they still live according to feudal traditions. And you must also know that "adultery" and its supposedly "punisment", firstly and above all, is related to the religion, rather than nations or ethnic groups. Kurds, too, do believe in Islam. Since the subject here is "Islam" or "Muslims", take them as "muslims", and thus correct your statement like the following:
"Some muslims do honor killings."
In another subject where ethnic groups or nations (or whatever) are dealt with, you can then mention them as "Kurds".
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| 137. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:43 pm |
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WHAT!?? I object to that having anything to do with kurds in particular. I doubt you have ever gone to kurdish regions. If you had, you would know that people are openminded about their religion and have very tightly knit families who would never dream of murdering eachother. Ya rab.
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| 138. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:52 pm |
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In Turkey in particular which cultural group practises honor killings or forced honor suicides? They're also muslims, but in İslam is there something like that?
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| 139. |
04 May 2007 Fri 11:55 pm |
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Quoting panta rei: and thus correct your statement like the following:
"Some muslims do honor killings."
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Then let me do this:
Muslims:
- Turkish muslims:
- Kurds:
- kurds living in feodal patriarchal culture:
- traditions:
- honor killings
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| 140. |
05 May 2007 Sat 12:02 am |
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Quoting mltm: In Turkey in particular which cultural group practises honor killings or forced honor suicides? |
This is not and in fact cannot be a problem of any nations or cultural groups, but that of practisers of a religion.
Quoting mltm:
They're also muslims, |
At last- you accept that! 
Quoting mltm: but in İslam is there something like that? |
So, can you define any cultural group or nation like the following?:
".... are who do honor killings."
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