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Forum Messages Posted by erdinc

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Thread: NUMBERS

741.       erdinc
2151 posts
 21 May 2006 Sun 10:03 pm

Greetings,
Here is the answer:

Like many suffixes the -inci suffix has 4 versions:

-[ı]ncı
-[i]nci
-[u]ncu
-[ü]ncü

The letter in paranthesis drops if the word ends with a vowel.
You decide which one to use by looking at the last vowel. It is always the last vowel that counts.

If the last vowel is 'a' or 'ı' you add -ıncı
If the last vowel is 'e' or 'i' you add -inci
If the last vowel is 'o' or 'u' you add -uncu
If the last vowel is 'ö' or 'ü' you add -üncü

Examples:

bir : The last vowel is 'i' so I should use -inci
iki : The last vowel is 'i' and the word ends with a vowel so I should use -nci
üç
dört : ö takes -üncü. T changes to d according consonant mutation rules. (*)
beş
altı
yedi
sekiz
dokuz
on

(*) Consonant mutation:
The voiced consonants 'p', 'ç', 't', 'k' will change to unvoiced consonants 'b', 'c', 'd', 'ğ/g' if they are followed by a vowel. Most one syllabling words don't follow this rule. In Turkish number of syllables equals to number of vowels.

Notice that the same rules mentioned above apply to other suffixes that have 4 versions such as question suffix (mı, mi, mu, mü) and past tense suffix (dı, di, du, dü).

So ve say 'güzel mi?', 'soğuk mu?' and 'geldi' (past tense of 'gelmek'), 'okudu' (past tense of 'okumak') according the same last vowel rule ('a' and 'ı' is followed by 'ı'... etc)

With suffixes that have only two versions (eg. plural suffix has only -ler and -lar forms) things are easier. Then you just match front vowels (e, i, ö, ü) to a front vowel (-ler) and back vowels (a, ı, o, u) to a bak vowel (-lar).

Don't hesitate to ask further questions if you haven't understood it properly. We are here to help Turkish learners.

Cheers
Erdinç



Thread: Practicing Personal Suffixes -1-

742.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 May 2006 Fri 11:52 pm

Miss Helen,
Your sentencer are all correct. OPerfectly done.

olentzero,
There are just tiny mistakes:

1. "İngilizçe" should be "İngilizce"
It is ç after voiced consonants (p, ç, t, k, h, s, ş, f) eg. Arapça

2. "Ekmek aldı mısın?" should be "Ekmek aldın mı?"

The misin version applies for other tenses (gidiyor musun?, gider misin?) and noun sentences (Sen öğrenci misin?).

3. "Açıktı mısın?" should be "Acıktın mı?"

4. "Ders çalıştı mısın?" is incorrect.

5. "Yemek yaptı mısın?" is incorrect.



Thread: BBC NEWS

743.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 May 2006 Fri 04:25 pm

A few additions:

Although there have been significant reforms due to EU regulations, still justice system remains a big problem.

Court rulings take many years which can be two to five years in simple and up to ten years in complicated cases. Jail sentences are too insufficient to prevent crime. Economical crimes have no economical punishments.

According "execution law" ("infaz yasası"), all criminals who have been given a jail sentence, no matter the crime they have commited, are staying 30% of their sentences in jail. A criminal who is sentenced 10 years by the court stays 3 years in prison.

Occasionally there have been discharges in Turkish prisons. In year 2000 12.000 criminals were released including rapists and murderers. These discharges have even more weakened trust on justice system.

***

Around 5000 PKK terorists are occupied in Northern Iraq which is under control of United States. US authorities for many years are refusing to take any action against the terorist camps.

Although Turkia is willing for a military operation outside its borders, US authorities announced disagrement on military operation carried by Turkish army in Northern Iraq.

According United Nations' Security Council regulations Turkia has the right to defend and act against terorism that is caused from a neigbor country. Turkia is seeking for possible military operation despite disagreement with US.


PKK has been listed by the United Nations Security Council as a terorist organisation. EU with agreement to United Nations has also listed PKK as a terrorist organisation. Despite these facts Denmark allows PKK's TV channel broadcasting from their country.


A few corrections:

Internet domain: com.tr

The press

Zaman - daily, İslamist
Yeni Asir - daily, local, Aegean district, İzmir and surrounding cities

TV

TGRT - private, conservative, familiy channel
NTV - private, news channel, main channel for news together with CNN Turk
CNN Turk - Turkish offshoot of well-known news channel
Radio
CNBC-E - private, cable TV, broadcasts in Turkish



Thread: Just the general idea

744.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 May 2006 Fri 06:02 am

Here is the summary of the story:

Leonardo Da Vinci designed a bridge in 1502 for "Golden Horn" (Haliç) in İstanbul.

Now they decided to build that bridge exactly as it was designed by da Vinci.

The Mayor of Istanbul has agreed on the project and has assigned architect Bülent Güngör to this project. Bülent Güngür is known for his works on restorations for some palaces in Istanbul.

The bridge will be constructed of steel and will be covered with a special type of stone (kufeki stone) that Mimar Sinan used in his buildings.

The bridge will be 240 meters long, 24 meters high from the sea and 8 meters wide. It will be for pedestrians.



Thread: gidip geldi

745.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 May 2006 Fri 12:37 am

yaparak, bakarak, koşarak, izleyerek, bilerek, ...

Here we have -erek, -arak suffix.

Just like -ıp, -ip, -up, -üp this is again a verbal adverb suffix. Both suffixes make adverbs of verbs.

Translations are unimportant. English and Turkish are two different languages that never match to each other. We always find a suitable and flexible way to create a smillar sentence in target language. We don't search for its equal within the target language.

"yaparak, yaptıkça, yapınca, yapıp, yapmadan, yaparken, yapalı," etc. are all verbal adverbs. They don't have an equal in English.

English has prepositions and we have suffixes. English uses prepositions like "by, in, on, at, when, while, as, with, without" etc. We have none of these prepositions.

There is no exact match between these two languages. But in general, the -erek, -arak suffix shows how an action was taken. It is the answer of 'how'? How did she come? How are we supposed to learn? How did he earn so much money? And then the answer comes: She came running, we learn by reading, he earned it by working hard.

OK, so lets build the affirmative sentences:

1. She came running.
2. We are going to learn by reading.
3. He earned all his money by working hard.

These three sentences are possible translations if there had been some Turkish sentences constructed that include the suffix -erek, -arak.

By the way, I mentioned that the -ip suffix is common on many idioms. But maybe I didn't stress that enough. Here are a few examples of idioms with -ip:

1. kaybolup gitti, uçup gitti, yok olup gitti, toz olup gitti, buhar olup gitti, eskiyip gitti, karışıp gitti,...
2. bakıp durma, sırıtıp durma, konuşup durma, arayıp durma, ...



Thread: Diş ağrısı

746.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 May 2006 Thu 09:08 pm

Yes, perfectly done sophie.

Your last sentence provides a typical verb conjugation and a good example for beginners. So to help beginners let me show how sophie has conjugated the verb:

uyu + y + a + ma + dı + m : I could not sleep

uyu : verb stem (sleep)
y : buffer letter preventing two vowels next to each other
a : unabilitative suffix
ma : negative suffix
dı : past tense suffix
m : first person personal suffix

Notice that a negative suffix always follows the unabilitative suffix.

Moha-ios liked this message


Thread: imdat...!!!!!!

747.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 May 2006 Thu 08:37 pm

Notice that the same vowel and consonant harmony rules above apply to nouns and adjectives in past tense as well. Yes we use past tense suffixes with nouns and adjectives too.

In Turkish we don't have the "to be" (am, is, are, was, were, has been, had been).
So we say:

Hava güzel. > The weather is nice.
Hava güzeldi. > The weather was nice.





Thread: imdat...!!!!!!

748.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 May 2006 Thu 08:31 pm

It's easy.

past tense suffixes are as follows:

-dı
-di
-du
-dü

-tı
-ti
-tu
-tü

1. After a vowel always use the "-d" version.
2. After an unvoiced consonant use the "-d" version.
3. Only after a voiced consonant use the "-t" version.
Voiced consonants are : p,ç,t,k,h,s,ş,f (hint "Fıstıkçı Şahap")

Ok, let's summarize 1,2 and 3:

If the last letter before the past tense suffix is "abcdegğıijlmnoöruüvyz" use "-d" version and if it is "pçtkhsşf" use "-t" version.

Remember it is only the last letter that counts for consonant harmony.
gitmek : to go
"git + ti + m" : I went
"git + me + di + m" : I didn't go

On affirmative last letter was voiced consonant, on negative last lette changed.

Now you know when to use t or d versions. But there are four of each. Which one do we use, say for d version?

-dı -di -du -dü

This time after consonant harmony it is "vowel harmony" that takes the stage.

In general :
a is followed by a or ı
e is followed by e or i
ı is followed by a or ı
i is followed by e or i
o is followed by a or u
ö is followed by e or ü
u is followed by a or u
ü is followed by e or ü

If we apply these to past tense:

if the last vowel is a use -dı
if the last vowel is ı use -dı

if the last vowel is e use -di
if the last vowel is i use -di

if the last vowel is o use -du
if the last vowel is u use -du

if the last vowel is ö use -dü
if the last vowel is ü use -dü

Example:
"gitmek"
verb stem is "git"
now you check two things:

1. is the last letter a voiced consonant?
2. what is the last vowel?

Yes, the last letter a voiced consonant and therefore I should use the t version.

The last vowel i and I should use "ti"

So we get "gitti".

example:
okumak > oku

1. is the last letter a voiced consonant? no
2. what is the last vowel? u
>>okudu



Thread: gidip geldi

749.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 May 2006 Thu 07:57 pm

The -ip suffix connects two actions.

The relation between the actions constructed by the -ip suffix can be more than one thing. It depends on the verbs.

1. Sometimes the -ip suffix just expresses an "and".
Yüzüme bakıp güldü.
He looked at my face and smiled.

2. Sometimes it expresses "by". You are doing this by doing that.

Koşup geldi.
He came running.

Smillarly to the above example -ip can also be a 'cause and effect' relation.

Durumu inceleyip anlayacağız.
We will investigate and see what the situation is.
If there is a stress on "inceleyip" the same sentence can be translated as:
We will understand the situation by investigating it.

3. Sometimes the two verbs can make an idiom. If the second verb is 'durmak' (to stay, to stand) then it is no more used in its regular meaning. This can be translated as "to keep doing something".

"koşup durma" : don't keep running.
"bakıp durmayın" : don't keep staring
"Aynı şeyi söyleyip duruyorsun" : You keep telling the same thing.

"Gelip gitmek" is also an idiom. It means "just go and come back immediately".



Thread: Diş ağrısı

750.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 May 2006 Thu 07:04 pm

sophie,
All your sentences are correct except this one:
"Uyumak istedim ama isteyemedim"



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